The Mormon Petition: A Proclamation For Truth

[_ludwigm]

395

396.
I won.

400 and counting

So what?
I am the 2nd. Olympic podium.

You are only the last but one.

[_Jutta]

That's nice. But despite what you think, women do have the priesthood in the LDS Church. Women perform ordinances in the temple and they must hold the priesthood to do so. In general it is true they do not officiate and are denied an active public role to use God's priesthood, as is their right. But this is merely a man-made policy and has nothing to do with Mormonism (a.k.a. the "real" Gospel of Jesus Christ) itself and so you are quite wrong about women not having the priesthood in Mormonism.

This is not correct. Because In the ancient times (the first century of the Christian faith), women hold the priesthood. And the LDS believe, that they are the succsessor of this ancient church. So, also women have to had the priesthood. Also for a "puplic priesthood". Women in the LDS church didn't have any priesthood power. They had to be obey to her husband (if he hold the priesthood) and to church leaders (as men had to be).
The "Temple ordinances" are not the same as be an aaronic or melchizedek priesthood holder. Women in the church can't be:

Bishop
Stake President
Elder Quorum President
Apostle
Prophet, seer and revelator

Just because they are women.
In the early Christian church, were women Bishops, Deaconess and Apostles.

[_Tobin]

That's nice. But despite what you think, women do have the priesthood in the LDS Church. Women perform ordinances in the temple and they must hold the priesthood to do so. In general it is true they do not officiate and are denied an active public role to use God's priesthood, as is their right. But this is merely a man-made policy and has nothing to do with Mormonism (a.k.a. the "real" Gospel of Jesus Christ) itself and so you are quite wrong about women not having the priesthood in Mormonism.

This is not correct. Because In the ancient times (the first century of the Christian faith), women hold the priesthood. And the LDS believe, that they are the succsessor of this ancient church. So, also women have to had the priesthood. Also for a "puplic priesthood". Women in the LDS church didn't have any priesthood power. They had to be obey to her husband (if he hold the priesthood) and to church leaders (as men had to be).
The "Temple ordinances" are not the same as be an aaronic or melchizedek priesthood holder. Women in the church can't be:

Bishop
Stake President
Elder Quorum President
Apostle
Prophet, seer and revelator

Just because they are women.
In the early Christian church, were women Bishops, Deaconess and Apostles.

Clealy you are wrong. All ordinances in the temple are priesthood ordinances and you must hold the priesthood to perform them. You are also mixing up orders of the priesthood and temporal roles with the priesthood of God itself. The only office in God's priesthood of any consequence is that of high priest or high priestess. Everything else is merely titles and temporal (and temporary). And you are very wrong about the public role of women in the Church. In the early part of the Mormon Church's History, women would often perform very public roles such as blessings and leadership within their lines of the priesthood. In fact, Emma and others are very notable in that and it was Brigham Young and company that squashed it. However, that does not mean they can not have the priesthood of God what-so-ever. It is merely a man-made policy and those can be changed.

[_Jutta]

However, that does not mean they can not have the priesthood of God what-so-ever. It is merely a man-made policy and those can be changed.

Both of us know that changes happens in the church policy only by outer/and/or inner pressure. We could see this wonderfully at the polygamy and the doctrine about colored persons and priesthood.
I referred to it, that the LDS claims boldly; being the successor organization of the early Church. A church "restored".
And in the early Church women got priesthood power. The priesthood by the way was understood differently in the early Church; when it is the case for the LDS, the RCC and many other Christian churches.

[_Tobin]

However, that does not mean they can not have the priesthood of God what-so-ever. It is merely a man-made policy and those can be changed.

Both of us know that changes happens in the church policy only by outer/and/or inner pressure. We could see this wonderfully at the polygamy and the doctrine about colored persons and priesthood.
I referred to it, that the LDS claims boldly; being the successor organization of the early Church. A church "restored".
And in the early Church women got priesthood power. The priesthood by the way was understood differently in the early Church; when it is the case for the LDS, the RCC and many other Christian churches.

Well, you are mistaken. The LDS Church is no such thing despite what it claims. The Kingdom of God or Church of God is an entirely different animal altogether. The LDS Church is very much like any other church - merely an association of like-minded believers.

[_grindael]

However, that does not mean they can not have the priesthood of God what-so-ever. It is merely a man-made policy and those can be changed.

Both of us know that changes happens in the church policy only by outer/and/or inner pressure. We could see this wonderfully at the polygamy and the doctrine about colored persons and priesthood.
I referred to it, that the LDS claims boldly; being the successor organization of the early Church. A church "restored".
And in the early Church women got priesthood power. The priesthood by the way was understood differently in the early Church; when it is the case for the LDS, the RCC and many other Christian churches.

Well, you are mistaken. The LDS Church is no such thing despite what it claims. The Kingdom of God or Church of God is an entirely different animal altogether. The LDS Church is very much like any other church - merely an association of like-minded believers.

“Women do not hold the priesthood because the Lord has put it that way. It is part of His program. Women have a very prominent place in this Church. Men hold the priesthood offices of the Church. But women have a tremendous place in this Church. They have their own organization. It was started in 1842 by the Prophet Joseph Smith, called the Relief Society, because its initial purpose was to administer help to those in need. It has grown to be, I think, the largest women’s organization in the world... They have their own offices, their own presidency, their own board. That reaches down to the smallest unit of the Church everywhere in the world...

“The men hold the priesthood, yes. But my wife is my companion. In this Church the man neither walks ahead of his wife nor behind his wife but at her side. They are co-equals in this life in a great enterprise.~Gordon B. Hinckley

Tobin is wrong again. Gordon B. Hinckley says so.

[_Jutta]

“Women do not hold the priesthood because the Lord has put it that way. It is part of His program.

"Because the Bible says it so". "Because the prophet says it so". "Because God has it so certainly". Do you not hear the money coin falling?
Once again for the quite stupid ones:

If the LDS is the successor of the early Church (which by the way so never there was); the priesthood then must be organized like in the early Church, too. Saying with that: Also women are entitled to be a deacon, teacher, priest, elder or HP!
If the LDS is not what they claims by herself; they can build rules of their own. Even a monkey then can become a prophet if the rule says it.
With "God" this has nothing to do!

Women have a very prominent place in this Church. Men hold the priesthood offices of the Church. But women have a tremendous place in this Church. They have their own organization.

Lie to yourself, if you want. If it "makes beautiful"?
Women are maids of their husbands and children! I come from a LDS parental home. I have many marriages seen during my membership, where the wife said to all "yes and amen" what ther husband wanted. As stupid, rediculous and costly this may have been also.
The Relief Society was founded in Joseph Smith's order after his wife Emma "convinced" him. Smith use the Relief Society. Not for his private sexual escapades only; but control the group (church) therefore primarily. Because whoever control the women control the society. This did not know only Karl Marx.

If you want to ban me for my honest statement, do it. I permit it to you.

[_LittleNipper]

As an Independent Fundamentalist Bible Believing Christian, I believe that the man is the head of his wife, as Christ is the head of His Church. I feel that the woman is to help the man, and man is better when the woman assists him. The man takes on and fights against brutality, while the woman take on childbirth and fights against the mundane.

[_Jutta]

As an Independent Fundamentalist Bible Believing Christian, I believe that the man is the head of his wife, as Christ is the head of His Church. I feel that the woman is to help the man, and man is better when the woman assists him. The man takes on and fights against brutality, while the woman take on childbirth and fights against the mundane.

Sorry, but this statement is "old - fashioned".

[_Samantabhadra]

It is generally accepted in Buddhist circles that the story of the Buddha is not really true. The prince who left home after seeing an old beggar... is considered to be apocryphal, or the story of a previous Buddha, but not the Buddha that started the movement. The story is instructive, however, so it has continued. Some purists may perpetuate the story, but most Buddhists I know just don’t care.

Uhhh... maybe amongst your Western "Buddhist" friends this is the case, but that is a very ahistorical (anachronistic, even) reading of the tradition. Not to mention the fact that even if the story as told has some embellishments, there is every reason to believe that Siddhartha of the Gautama clan was a rich Ksetriya from Magadha (possibly even Lumbini) who gave up his inheritance to pursue the life of a Saddhu. There is every reason to believe it precisely because Brahmanical religion in the region was undergoing huge upheavals at precisely that time and the Saddhu lifestyle was quite popular; remember he first trained with five other Saddhus, who were his first disciples after his attainment of enlightenment.

So bottom line I don't know what kind of "Buddhism" you think you're practicing,.