Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

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_wayfarer
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _wayfarer »

Kishkumen wrote:My source also says that Dehlin was fortunate he got it quashed, since it was calculated to make Dehlin look really, really bad.

Actually, at this point, I think the mopologists 'hit pieces' make the mopologists look bad, not John Dehlin.

Of course, the 'hit pieces' preach to the mopologist converts. They simply talk to the confirmation bias they already have: you're either with the mo-po's, or against them. If you're against them, then the singular objective is to discredit the opposition.

Dan Peterson and his cabal's cunning linquistic exercises are to pick from what someone says out a blurb completely out of context, creating a caricature/strawman of what their targets say. Then, they assassinate the character of the person with the goal to appear to destroy credibility. There is never an intent to engage in an honest dialogue, only to discredit.

For example, Midgley picks out of context "There is no reason to believe in a literal Jesus Christ...but I choose to believe and have faith anyway." When he quotes the first phrase without the second, he distorts the meaning, and then calls his target an "Antichrist", knowing that such language will declare that the target is a wolf in sheep's clothing and worthy of vilification. Then the fawning sycophants pile on the insults to make a monster out of the target.

When I laid out for DCP that he bears responsibility for his buddy's divisive and inaccurate language, he stood right there beside him and refused to do so. Then he accused me of "bearing false witness", claiming that I said he called people "antichrist", which I never did -- I only said he agreed with the sentiment. Then, over and over again, he would say "stop bearing false witness" in a single-minded effort to discredit. At one point he said about me, "credibility zero", which of course was his intent all along.

Hamblin so viscerally hates Dehlin he had to be shut down in a thread -- which has to be a miracle on mad-board.

So, in my impression, the worse the hit-piece is, the more it clearly demonstrates the vile hatred these guys have for someone they consider an enemy. Their hubris is their undoing.

If I understand Dehlin's logic for not having it published originally, it was that such a piece would do harm to the Maxwell Institute and thus BYU and the church -- and he actually cared that it not be published not to protect himself, but rather, to protect the institution. Now that the institution is clearly not behind the hit piece, then having it published simply will demonstrate that the mopologists at "mormoninterpreter" are clearly in defiance of the direction of the church at present.

I really don't think that the piece can damage Dehlin. The worse it is, the more it damages the mopologist community.
_Cylon
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _Cylon »

Gadianton wrote:I came across a post over there that said JD had requested Smith's paper to be published. What's up with that?

That sounds like a misrepresentation of what John said. Over the weekend there was a big blowup on Dan Peterson's Facebook page where John waded in and got into it with the apologists. On that thread he requested that he be given a copy of the paper to read, but I never saw him request that it be published. Unfortunately, now all of John's posts have been deleted from that thread. I don't know whether he deleted them himself or if Dan did.
_wayfarer
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _wayfarer »

Cylon wrote:
Gadianton wrote:I came across a post over there that said JD had requested Smith's paper to be published. What's up with that?

That sounds like a misrepresentation of what John said. Over the weekend there was a big blowup on Dan Peterson's Facebook page where John waded in and got into it with the apologists. On that thread he requested that he be given a copy of the paper to read, but I never saw him request that it be published. Unfortunately, now all of John's posts have been deleted from that thread. I don't know whether he deleted them himself or if Dan did.

heavens. what a mess.
_bcspace
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _bcspace »

Seems more likely that it would be much less of a hit piece than any anti Mormon work. Still, let's see it first before we jump to conclusions.

Excellent point. Let's see the accompanying cement bucket and fish before we definitively call it a hit piece.


It's obvious the apologists have the advantage here as there is not even a body.
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _Kishkumen »

wayfarer wrote:When I laid out for DCP that he bears responsibility for his buddy's divisive and inaccurate language, he stood right there beside him and refused to do so. Then he accused me of "bearing false witness", claiming that I said he called people "antichrist", which I never did -- I only said he agreed with the sentiment. Then, over and over again, he would say "stop bearing false witness" in a single-minded effort to discredit. At one point he said about me, "credibility zero", which of course was his intent all along.


That sounds very familiar, wayfarer. I think I have seen this conversation unfold, in different versions, countless times now.

wayfarer wrote:Hamblin so viscerally hates Dehlin he had to be shut down in a thread -- which has to be a miracle on mad-board.


He has a way of spitting venom through the computer screen. You should see the emails he sent me. Diabolical stuff.

wayfarer wrote:So, in my impression, the worse the hit-piece is, the more it clearly demonstrates the vile hatred these guys have for someone they consider an enemy. Their hubris is their undoing.

*******

I really don't think that the piece can damage Dehlin. The worse it is, the more it damages the mopologist community.


Yes, I agree. And I have to say that following you lately on MDDB has been a real treat. Lou and the gang just don't know what to do with you. You might as well be speaking Chinese to them, since they haven't the foggiest clue what you are talking about. In any case, I suggested in what I thought was friendly advice that these shenanigans did not help the apologists' case one bit, but I was ignored, dismissed, or attacked.

I have seen much the same with lots of people who attempt to get through to Peterson. Recently a guy dared to suggest, as so many have, that Peterson might be frittering away his talents on these issues. He had some 'splainin' to do, as you might imagine. He had to construct his suggestion so politely and carefully you would have thought he was addressing an emperor. He did manage to pull it off, though. I was impressed.

Someday Peterson may wake up to the futility of this pursuit of his. His excuse of "I just find these crazy apostates endlessly fascinating" is very long in the tooth. It has lost whatever credibility it had five or more years ago.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_dblagent007
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _dblagent007 »

My understanding is that the original title was "Lying Mormon Stories that John Dehlin Tells to Me." I mean, c'mon. With a title like that, how could it be anything but a hit piece?

Also, my understanding is that John Dehlin knew the title (along with a friend who warned him it was a hit piece) and that was one of the reasons he appealed to the GAs to quash the whole thing.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _Kishkumen »

dblagent007 wrote:My understanding is that the original title was "Lying Mormon Stories that John Dehlin Tells to Me." I mean, c'mon. With a title like that, how could it be anything but a hit piece?

Also, my understanding is that John Dehlin knew the title (along with a friend who warned him it was a hit piece) and that was one of the reasons he appealed to the GAs to quash the whole thing.


Excellent observation, dblagent007. Th denials are truly unbelievable. I mean, who could possibly call something with a title like that a "hit piece"? LOL.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Cicero
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _Cicero »

Cylon wrote:Over the weekend there was a big blowup on Dan Peterson's Facebook page where John waded in and got into it with the apologists. On that thread he requested that he be given a copy of the paper to read, but I never saw him request that it be published. Unfortunately, now all of John's posts have been deleted from that thread. I don't know whether he deleted them himself or if Dan did.


Here is one thing that survived from that thread. This is from DCP to John Dehlin (in response to a post from John offering reconciliation with DCP):

Daniel Peterson wrote:John: You pronounce me a thug, presume to judge me as "unchristlike," and boast about your (fictional) role in last summer's purge at the Maxwell Institute, your friends insult me with crude epithets (uncorrected by you) and then you say that you want "reconciliation"? I've never treated you or anybody else like this. You've actively participated in demonizing me, and, in the eyes of at least some of your followers, you've plainly succeeded. Something, indeed, to be proud of . . .


How can he seriously claim never to have treated anyone like that? Dan: Would you like us to list all the "crude epithets" and insults your friends Will, Bill and Lou have hurled at people over the years "uncorrected" by you? Sheesh, would all of you guys stop casting stones for a minute to consider the MASSIVE beams in your own eyes? You guys live in a fantasy world.
_why me
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _why me »

We would have all been a little smarter if the piece were published when it should have been published. But instead, John put the kabash on it. And now we can only speculate. The problem came when John wanted the piece censored. And it is there that the root of the problem can be found.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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_why me
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Re: Anonymous Source Confirms Hit Piece

Post by _why me »

Kishkumen wrote:
Excellent observation, dblagent007. Th denials are truly unbelievable. I mean, who could possibly call something with a title like that a "hit piece"? LOL.


Unfortunately, an unknown source is still unknown. The person who is unknown will need to be known if you want to be taken seriously. Time for "deep throat" to come forward.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
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