Bazooka wrote:Fusion wrote:Albion, Bazooka, and Ludwigm-
I don't know if it's cynicism I smell in the air, but if you still think it's worth your precious time to be dealing with all of this, I am flattered enough to spend my time writing some thought lines.
When it comes to those quotes Bazooka posted about the Holy Spirit, and then says the church talks out of both sides of their mouth, you are correct in my opinion. That is specifically why I am extremely grateful for the Word of God contained in the Book of Mormon which tells us repeatedly NOT to put our trust in the arm of flesh, be it anyone McKonkie or Thomas Monson or J Fielding Smith who ironically himself said that if anything any man, even a president of the church says, that doesn't line up with the scriptures, it is futile to believe it. A new revelation doesn't and simply cannot contradict a former one- that is simple commonsense, not really something that is a revelation in itself.
Perhaps the two revelations on polygamy might constitute where a contradiction has occurred?
Maybe the one where Black people can now have the Priesthood etc? (Although even the Church recognises the doubt surrounding wether or not this was a revelation in the first place).
The temple ordinances were revealed via revelation and these have subsequently been changed.
Brigham Young 'revealed' that Adam was God and this has subsequently been contradicted.
Current Apostles have also stated that the current leaders 'Trump' past Prophets and even the scriptures themselves.
One of the uniques aspects of Mormonism is the claim of ongoing revelation, which undoubtedly leads to contradictory positions when compared to previous revelations.
I think there are lots of examples where Mormon 'revelation' has been contradicted by later revelatory pronouncements.
In fact, doesn't the Book of Mormon contradict the Bible in places?
Hasn't the Book of Mormon itself been changed, which in some cases means the current version contradicts the first version?
Bazooka:
Thank you for your remarks. My 2 and a half cents, for what they may be worth, is as follows-
1. I am unsure of 'two' revelations' on polygamy. I am aware of the revelations on marriage which is contained in the Book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon which flatly states that polygamy is an abomination, as well as the revelations on MONOGAMY that used to constitute Section 101:4 -"Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached
with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."(History of the Church, vol. 2, pg. 247). This remained in the scriptures till 1876, when my buddy Brigham Young took it out. Funny thing is Brigham never professed to be a prophet and yet the folk over whom he presided with unrighteous dominion, followed him blindly- that same 'arm of flesh' I mentioned before that the Lord warns us about. Section 101:4 was replaced almost 40 years after Joseph's death with the rather suspicious D&C 132, which Brigham said he got from Joseph- I suggest you check out Watcher's articles on his blog on the false revelation that D&C132 is, which is far more in depth on this matter. When all is said and done, D&C 132 didn't exist nor voted into the cannon of scripture during Joseph's lifetime. We the modern church seem to just accept it. The very first time I read it when I joined the church, was met with a feeling of stupor and darkness, which is the total opposite of the light and intelligence I experience from the Book of Mormon and the true revelations in the D&C. As I researched, instead of accepting blindly, I got my answers.
2. Blacks and the Priesthood- another ridiculous doctrine that was/is blindly accepted. About 3 years ago, a young man in my ward, who is an incredible voice of truth where the church history is concerned, gave a lesson on this false doctrine. I couldn't believe the backlash from some people, whilst others felt elated that Joseph Smith indeed did give the black folk the priesthood. My wife is mixed black, and this just didn't sit right with me. Upon research I discovered that rascist people will continue to promote their pathetic views and put words in Joseph's mouth. I have yet to see an actual revelation on this and I know I won't. Why? because it doesn't and never did exist. The Book of Mormon, my standard for all things truthful, states without compromise, that the Gospel is for ALL, black and white, rich and poor, bond and free. When supposed power hungry men who pretend to be the Lord's chosen, come along and start to transfigure the word of God, it is OUR responsibility to stand up and choose who we will follow, the Lord or them.
3. Been searching for almost 2 decades for this revelation on temple ordinances. Haven't found it yet! Would love to see your documentation on this revelation you speak about. In fact, this would be priceless! The earliest I have found in my research is from 1846 where a young lady said she went to the temple and was disgusted with what Briham and his buddies had done to the House of the Lord. I simply have not found a thing that suggests the temple Endowment ceremony in the Brighamite church, of which I am an absent part, is true. The current temlple ceremony to me seems to be a mixture of scripture from the Book of Moses in the Pearl of great Price, some input from the Old testament (possibly to the Dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham that Watcher alludes to) and a whole lot of masonry. I never felt comfortable from my very first visit. I KNEW it was not right. As I research, I am convinced of my feelings. The Book of Mormon declares clearly that it contains the FULNESS of the Gospel- in other words, it is the standard. If the temple ceremony the LDS have had since Brigham's time is not clearly articulated in the Book of Mormon, i am under no obligation to blindly accept it, especially when the Holy Spirit within my (my portion of the Spirit anyway) finds it abhorrent.
4. Adam is God- if that false doctrine doesn't expose brigham for being a false prophet, then nothing does! Once again, when I signed on the dotted line when the missionaries brought the Book of Mormon to me, it was the Book of Mormon and the extremely solemn tone with which it declared the Gospel of the Father and Son, that enlarged my soul. If I knew about Brigham's nonsense and the rest of those supposed 'prophets' and corporate men, I wold have politely said 'thank you for this delicious book, I'll keep it and make it mine, but no thanks to joining your corporate affair'. We all have heard of the saying 'don;t shoot the messenger', but how about the other way? Why is it that just coz someone brings you the Book of Mormon, that it must be assumed that they are the ONE? If that is the case, then EVERY branch of the Restoration, be it LDS, FLDS, Community of Christ, the Strangites etc, must all be the ONE?! Right?! Wrong. Mormon 8 tells us that 'every one of us have become polluted'. The Word of God is once again amazingly accurate, and it is enough for me.
5. I don't think I have to address your concerns about the current apostles and their contradictory remarks, especially the one where they defiantly state the exact opposite of what Jospeh clearly set out- that you can know a false revelation immediately if it would contradict a former revelation! This is documented, yet the current leaders set this at defiance and continuet o expound Ezra T Benson's '14 fundamentals of following the Prophet' talk that he gave. I am sure he sits somewhere in the spirit world regretting that false doctrine he set out on his upward climb through the corporate ladder of the church hierarchy. To give him credit, he also was the one who stood more boldly and vocally in regards to conspiracies within and without the church and America. Those that followed him after he seemed to have repented from his '14 fundamentals' false doctrine, have all the backbone of a wet paper bag. They are in a seamless union with Babylon and they know it. They may have the right or keys of the priesthood, it is true, but the POWER of the priesthood is undeniably absent from any of them. However, none of this should be a surprise to any of us! The fact is the Book of Mormon, if we have actually been reading it, lays out all of this happening before the Lord comes! The Gentile church is nearing its final days/years.
When it comes to anything that involves the Word of God being transfigured (whether the Book of Mormon by the modern church, or the Bible by the Catholics and others 'after it came forth from the mouth of the Jew', as the Book of Mormon so succinctly declares) by those who did NOT see Jesus face to face, nor the Father for that matter, nor have received revelations or mandates to go fiddling around with His revealed Word...then the answer lies within the question proposed- is the transfigured Word contradictory? Of course it is. I personally will stick with the original Word of God as revealed to the only guy who actually was the Prophet and Seer and Revelator, and that is Joseph, who shared that power with those whom the Lord commissioned in the D&C and no one else- Sidney Rigdon, Hyrum Smith,Oliver Cowdery etc.
So for the long answer- you had a lot of statements I just couldn't resist.
Fusion