Sammy Jankins wrote:The transcript has been removed.
From John Dehlin in the comments section.
Hey all – For the record, I spoke with someone at church headquarters (a friend) who expressed concern about my sharing the Jensen/Turley transcript without permission (from the standpoint of Mormon Stories and my own relationship to the church), so I decided to take it down.
Sorry for the change. This is a tough line/balance to walk for me, but I feel like this is the best decision after talking w/ my friend.
Oh for god sake. Really? Really Dehlin? And just why is the church upset about posting the transcript? Does everything Mormon have to be done in the shadows?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
annie wrote:I read it too and I found it fascinating. I was astonished at the tenacity of those who were asking the questions - they wouldn't let go and they wouldn't accept woolly answers. It's no wonder Terryl Givens only allowed one question per person and no come-backs in his recent firesides.
I was very impressed by these Swedish Saints. They were getting the runaround and a lot of hand-waving, and they were having none of it. I'm guessing that meeting may have been the last straw for a lot of the people who attended. They send a GA and a historian, and they get nothing but BS answers. If I had gone there, I'd have thought, "If this is the best they can offer, they have nothing."
Sammy Jankins wrote:The transcript has been removed.
From John Dehlin in the comments section.
Hey all – For the record, I spoke with someone at church headquarters (a friend) who expressed concern about my sharing the Jensen/Turley transcript without permission (from the standpoint of Mormon Stories and my own relationship to the church), so I decided to take it down.
Sorry for the change. This is a tough line/balance to walk for me, but I feel like this is the best decision after talking w/ my friend.
Jesus might have been able to turn water into wine, but I'm not sure his Church will be able to put toothpaste back into the tube.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I didn't realize you could attach a file to a PM (shows you how often I use the PM feature). So, again, if anyone wants it, send me a PM, and I'll send it to you.
annie wrote: ... Terryl Givens only allowed one question per person and no come-backs in his recent firesides.
Really? So he can give a questioner pretty well any damn' answer he pleases, and the questioner (who may well have done a fair bit of background research) can say nothing to indicate to others present that they are being fed BS.
I'd call that 'running scared' myself.
In the States we call it "chicken****". Even more disgusting than "BS".
Sammy Jankins wrote:The transcript has been removed.
From John Dehlin in the comments section.
Hey all – For the record, I spoke with someone at church headquarters (a friend) who expressed concern about my sharing the Jensen/Turley transcript without permission (from the standpoint of Mormon Stories and my own relationship to the church), so I decided to take it down.
Sorry for the change. This is a tough line/balance to walk for me, but I feel like this is the best decision after talking w/ my friend.
Geesh. I'm sure glad I printed off a copy. It's a real 'gold mine' as to how the Church is dealing with the tough issues (pretty poorly, as shown in the minutes). The most damning part is not even in the minutes (don't know why) -- in part 4 of his interview with Dehlin, Mattsson recounts in vivid detail how, at the end of the meeting, Area President Erich Kopischke made direct threats against the members in attendance at the "secret" meeting, forbidding them from speaking about anything discussed at the meeting, followed by an ultimatum that they had to choose to be in or out of the Church, and then having their bishops follow up to get their answer. That's the part that really sickened me.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)