The Nahom Follies

[_honorentheos]

In regards to the 'turn by turn' navigations in the wilderness narrative in 1 Nephi 16-17 we have this interesting observation:

Link of NHM with eastward turn

There is another piece that one should add to the NHM issue. It concerns Nephi’s note that “we did travel nearly eastward from that time forth,” following events at Nahom (1 Ne. 17:1). This geographical notice is one of the few in Nephi’s narrative and invites examination. One observes that northwest of Marib, the ancient capital of the Sabaean kingdom of south Arabia, almost all roads turn east, veering from the general north-south direction of the incense trail. Moreover, the eastward bend occurs in the general area inhabited by the NHM tribe. (I add parenthetically that I assume that Lehi’s party had been following or shadowing the incense trail because wells were located at more or less regular intervals along the route. This view would fit most naturally with the observation in the Book of Mormon that Lehi’s party traveled in a generally south-southeast direction, an observation which matches the direction of the incense trail [see 1 Ne. 16:13-14, 33].)

An important question is whether Joseph Smith could have learned about this eastward turn in the main incense trail. As far as I have been able to discover, no written source, Classical or contemporary, mentions it. It is my view, therefore, that only a person who had traveled either near or along the trail would know that it turned eastward in this area. To be sure, the longest leg of the incense trail ran basically north-south along the highland (eastern) side of the Al-Sar~t mountains of western Arabia (actually, from the north, the trail held in a south-southeast direction, as Nephi says). But after passing south of Najran (modern Ukhdãd, Saudi Arabia), both the main trail and several shortcuts turned eastward, all leading to Shabwah, then the chief staging center for caravans in south Arabia. One spur of the trail continued farther southward to Aden. But the traffic along this section was very much less than that which went to and from Shabwah. The main trail and its spurs ran eastward, matching Nephi’s description, because wells were there and because Shabwah controlled the finest incense of Arabia that was coming westward from Oman. This general area is the only place along the incense trail where traffic ran east-west. Hence, until other evidence surfaces, I conclude that neither Joseph Smith nor anyone else in his society knew about this turn in the incense trail which the narrative of First Nephi features. (Incidentally, for maps that show the eastward spurs of the trail that led to Shabwah, see Pierre Robert Baduel [ed.], L’Arabie antique de Karib’îl à Mahomet: Nouvelles données sur l’histoire des Arabes grâce aux inscriptions. La Revue du Monde Musulman et de la Méditerranée, no. 61 [1991-3], map 1; and Nigel Groom, Frankincense and Myrrh [London: Longman Group Ltd., 1981], 167, 192.)

Have any of the critics taken on this particular observation and shown it to be unimportant or a 'non-evidence'?

Regards,
MG

Has any believer shown why the Lehite party would be traveling the trade route on the one hand, while supposedly hiding out in the wilderness requiring a magic compass to navigate on the other?

[_mentalgymnast]

Has any believer shown why the Lehite party would be traveling the trade route on the one hand, while supposedly hiding out in the wilderness requiring a magic compass to navigate on the other?

To know when to make that eastward turn off the beaten path and where to go after that.

Regards,
MG

[_DrW]

I think you misunderstand my point Chap. I'm not familiar with studies of ancient climate, geomorphology, or subsequent ecological patterns in Yemen. I don't even know enough to know how thoroughly that's been examined.

I do however know that there are meaningful shifts over thousand year timespans, therefore it is unwise to look at current conditions and simply project them into antiquity. DrW mentioned areas today that hold suitable Oasis-like environments, and it immediately occurred to me that the distribution of those environments may have shifted over time.

That is an important point.

As a point of clarification, the geologic formation giving rise to the onshore flow uplift that results in a "rainy season" in the Salalah region are millions of years old, as are the Hajar Mountains themselves. The monsoon wind patterns that bring the moisture onshore have been occurring seasonally for some 8 million years and increased to their present strength about 5 million years ago.

As stated upthread, there is no evidence that trees which can produce wood suitable for large boat keels and other structural components ever grew naturally anywhere in Oman, including in the Salalah area.

[_Bret Ripley]

Has any believer shown why the Lehite party would be traveling the trade route on the one hand, while supposedly hiding out in the wilderness requiring a magic compass to navigate on the other?

To know when to make that eastward turn off the beaten path and where to go after that.

Okay, but according to the material you quoted earlier today ('Link of NHM with eastward turn', https://www.nephiproject.com/on__nahom.htm) they would have still been following a "beaten path" (the main incense trail) when they made that eastward turn. Of course, they may have gotten lost after that since it took them 8 years to get to Bountiful. If it was anything like my family outings, it was probably because Lehi was too proud to stop and ask for directions.

[_mentalgymnast]

As stated upthread, there is no evidence that trees which can produce wood suitable for large boat keels and other structural components ever grew naturally anywhere in Oman, including in the Salalah area.

I noted that earlier. I would be interested in reading more in regards to this...but not sure where to go. Any help?

Time period. Location. Now we do have to remember, that we need to at least allow that Nephi was getting help from God to build the ship. So I'm willing to cut some slack there. But the natural conditions are the natural conditions. Any sources that would show that the wood/trees necessary for building ANY kind of long range suitable boat wouldn't have been at hand in that time and place? What kinds of trees are in that particular area today? Were they different over two thousand years ago?

Can we really know?

Regards,
MG

[_Chap]

As stated upthread, there is no evidence that trees which can produce wood suitable for large boat keels and other structural components ever grew naturally anywhere in Oman, including in the Salalah area.

I noted that earlier. I would be interested in reading more in regards to this...but not sure where to go. Any help?

Time period. Location. Now we do have to remember, that we need to at least allow that Nephi was getting help from God to build the ship.

So you are free to imagine what you like. But could you please just come straight out, say "It was a miracle" and stop scrabbling around to find some shred of possibility that this completely inexperienced man with no tools apart from what he made himself could have made an ocean-going ship all on his own, and by normal means? And all that in an area that produces no suitable timber.

So I'm willing to cut some slack there. But the natural conditions are the natural conditions.

Oh ye of little faith!

Any sources that would show that the wood/trees necessary for building ANY kind of long range suitable boat wouldn't have been at hand in that time and place? What kinds of trees are in that particular area today? Were they different over two thousand years ago?

Can we really know?

Regards,
MG

The answer to that last question is more or less 'yes'. The kind of long-matured stands of timber needed for Nephi's purposes do not grow up overnight nor do they suddenly vanish without leaving traces in the soil, and the climate is also recoverable by archeological study. See the article I cited as an example.

Just stick to the miracles and have done. Or accept that it is all just a story.

[_canpakes]

Has any believer shown why the Lehite party would be traveling the trade route on the one hand, while supposedly hiding out in the wilderness requiring a magic compass to navigate on the other?

To know when to make that eastward turn off the beaten path and where to go after that.

I always thought it odd that the liahona was likened to a compass under the premise that a compass gives - in this case, active - directions. Yet a compass only indicates your direction relative to the needle's alignment to N/S. When I first read the Book of Mormon this struck me as a good example of Smith trying to make the tale believable, or something that the average listener could relate to, but without really grasping the nature of how a compass is actually used in navigation.

That aside, we have the apologist claim that Lehi and the gang took a known trail to the East after hitting Nahom (given the apologist assumption of where Nahom is). Why did it take 8 years to walk the trail from Nahom to Bountiful? Using a liberal estimate of 900 miles, that means that Lehi's crew was traveling about 550 yards a day, on average - or just over a quarter mile.

I suppose that such a ridiculous pace explains all of the murmuring along the way, anyway.

[_honorentheos]

Has any believer shown why the Lehite party would be traveling the trade route on the one hand, while supposedly hiding out in the wilderness requiring a magic compass to navigate on the other?

To know when to make that eastward turn off the beaten path and where to go after that.

Regards,
MG

Here's what you're asking for, essentially:

"How could Joseph Smith have possibly known that if a person travelled east from the site of the NHM inscriptions they would be following an otherwise poorly known trade route? And that following said route is a way to arrive near a place that could be Bountiful?"

What you are ignoring when you ask this:

- The Lehi party is supposed to be traveling in the wilderness, not on a traveled route.
- The Lehi party required a special compass to navigate which would make sense if they were not following a traveled route but makes no sense if they are even roughly following such a route even at an offset.
- The Lehi party is being led to water and supplies. Trade routes are funny things. They aren't the result of ancient engineers drawing lines on maps and sending out camels. They are essentially the way people found allowed them to make a trip where they could travel, find water, and otherwise survive in a difficult environment. The exact needs the Lehite party had and were being led to supposedly by God would be the very places that led to the establishment of the trade route. It makes no sense to say Lehi and co. were traveling along the route but also in the wilderness in such a way they would not be discovered while being led to the water holes and supply points available along the way.

The description is exactly what you would expect from someone who was making up an adventure story based on the Exodus narrative. Not what one would expect from an account from the actual place at that time.

The Book of Mormon tells us that the Lehite party was following the border of the Red Sea. To get to the ocean, anyone with a map could make up a story saying something about going south along the Red Sea then turning east to an ocean along the way. There's nothing amazing about the description. It's pretty much as broad a description as a person could have given with nothing more than a globe to keep them from messing up which of the four cardinal points led to an ocean.

Let me give you another example of a story I think believing members misread as being faith promoting when it really should be a face-palm moment of how obvious the fraud is.

Here's a famous quote from Emma Smith:

When my husband was translating the Book of Mormon, I wrote a part of it, as he dictated each sentence, word for word, and when he came to proper names he could not pronounce, or long words, he spelled them out, and while I was writing them, if I made a mistake in spelling, he would stop me and correct my spelling, although it was impossible for him to see how I was writing them down at the time. .?. . When he stopped for any purpose at any time he would, when he commenced again, begin where he left off without any hesitation, and one time while he was translating he stopped suddenly, pale as a sheet, and said, "Emma, did Jerusalem have walls around it?" When I answered, "Yes," he replied, "Oh! I was afraid I had been deceived." He had such a limited knowledge of history at the time that he did not even know that Jerusalem was surrounded by walls.

I don't know about you, but when I read something I didn't know from a source I trust I don't turn to someone near me and question if it is accurate or not. It would be a "Huh, didn't know that." moment.

OTOH, the story makes a lot more sense when one imagines Joseph humming along telling a story and gets ahead of himself by saying something with enough specificity it could be fact-checked. His response: "Is that accurate? Yes? Oh good, I wanted to make sure I wasn't being deceived."

I will say it's very faith promoting, in the same way a curve on a mountain road promotes turning. You either turn with it, or go off the cliff.

[_Nevo]

Any sources that would show that the wood/trees necessary for building ANY kind of long range suitable boat wouldn't have been at hand in that time and place?

Definitely not this one:

"Arabia does not and never did produce wood suitable for building strong seagoing ships."

— George F. Hourani, Arab Seafaring in the Indian Ocean in Ancient and Early Medieval Times (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1951), 5, quoted in Terry Ball, "Letter to the Editor," Journal of the Book of Mormon and Other Restoration Scripture 18, no. 1 (2009): 56–57.

[_mentalgymnast]

Any sources that would show that the wood/trees necessary for building ANY kind of long range suitable boat wouldn't have been at hand in that time and place?

Definitely not this one:

"Arabia does not and never did produce wood suitable for building strong seagoing ships."

— George F. Hourani, Arab Seafaring in the Indian Ocean in Ancient and Early Medieval Times (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1951), 5, quoted in Terry Ball, "Letter to the Editor," Journal of the Book of Mormon and Other Restoration Scripture 18, no. 1 (2009): 56–57.

Two things that Terry Ball said peaked my interest:

Accordingly, I would suggest that while it may be tenable, especially with the hand of God involved, to construct a ship or raft using only wood from trees indigenous to Dhofar, it is equally if not more tenable that Nephi used imported wood, such as teak from India, which I believe, contrary to Aston, was likely available at that time, to construct the bulk of the vessel. Agius notes that India has been the supplier of such wood from antiquity.8 Beginning in the third century BC, Khor Rori was a port of extensive trade with India,9 a trade that must have existed before then. I note that Nephi’s account of the construction does not mention the harvesting of trees, only that they “did work timbers of curious workmanship” (1 Nephi 18:1), perhaps because the timbers were imported and ready to be shaped.

and

While today the relatively isolated Khor Kharfot is arguably more “fertile” than some of the other sites suggested by researchers for Nephi’s Bountiful, it is tenable and in fact likely that in Nephi’s day the other more impacted sites were more “fertile” than they are today. Palynological research at Sumhumram indicates that Khor Rori once supported “lush vegetation” and many more species of plants than found there today. Remarkably the researchers found evidence of wheat (Triticum) and barley (Hordeum) cultivation between the third and first centuries BC.10

Sumerian texts indicate that seafaring and trade between Arabian and Persian gulf ports existed as early as the third millennium BC.13 I find it unlikely that a seafaring people living on the sea coast, engaged in shipping and trading, would not build and maintain watercraft.

Thanks for this link, by the way. It's what I was looking for. So if the wood/timbers were accessible through other means rather than local harvesting, then we are left with the other elements/resources that may have been available 'on site'. I would suppose that if the teak (or other wood product) could be imported, then other 'stuffs' could have been bargained for and imported also. One thing that I remember reading somewhere or seeing in the "Journey of Faith" video was that there were honeybees native to the area where Bountiful may have been located. One or more of the modern 'possibilities' for Bountiful has an apparently inexhaustible source of honey/honeybees.

Interesting stuff.

In a recent post someone mentioned the improbability that the Lehites would have traveled for eight years in the 'wilderness'. I'm question whether they were in the wilderness as we would visualize it, stumbling around from here to there. Rather, I would be intrigued in possibility that they were nomadic people living off the land, increasing their resources, raising their families, and later in their travels may have wheeled and dealed with 'others' in order to survive/thrive and also find raw materials and other things necessary to make a long voyage to the Promised Land.

Regards,
MG