The Apostasy of the LDS Church

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_Kishkumen
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The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

I post this for those who may be lurking and wondering why I have started to discuss the new policy preventing the children of gay parents who are married to their gay partner or cohabiting with a gay partner from getting baptized. Consider this scripture:

Matt. 19:14 wrote:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


With this new policy, the LDS Church is breaking a commandment spoken by Jesus Christ during his mortal ministry: "Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come into me."

Then this:

D&C 68:25-27 wrote:25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.

27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.


Here the divine commandment is for children to be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old. There is no condition placed on this baptism. The scripture never says, "unless that child's parents are sinning in "x" way." This is very clear.

And whether it applies specifically, the larger principle of this canonized article of faith is something I think does apply.

Articles of Faith, 1:2 wrote:2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.


By denying baptism children who are eligible for it, according to canonized divine revelation, at the age of 8, and by penalizing children eligible for baptism because of the sin of their parents, the LDS Church has entered into apostasy.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

To this, I would add:

D&C 121:36-37 wrote:36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.


The powers of heaven can only be controlled or handled upon the principles of righteousness, among which I would include the clear teachings of Jesus. When the priesthood is used to exercise control or dominion or compulsion, as it is here through this new policy, the priesthood of the man doing so is null and void.

The priesthood of the Brethren is now null and void.

The LDS Church is clearly in apostasy.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Tobin
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Tobin »

And it wasn't in apostasy before this policy was announced? Come on.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Darth J
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Darth J »

Tobin wrote:And it wasn't in apostasy before this policy was announced? Come on.


You know, with the way you have invented an ad hoc theology based on plot points from Star Trek episodes, it seems like you would understand issues of continuity and internal consistency in a narrative, which are issues apart from the truth value of the narrative itself.

In this case, Reverend Kishkumen is pointing out that the religion subsidiary of the LDS REIT is so obsessed with marginalizing gay people that it's abandoning its doctrines purporting to care about children and their spiritual welfare.

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether a person has Asperger's or is just a shithead, and I think it's nice Tobin is here to remind everyone it's not always cut and dry.
_Philo Sofee
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Kishkumen wrote:I post this for those who may be lurking and wondering why I have started to discuss the new policy preventing the children of gay parents who are married to their gay partner or cohabiting with a gay partner from getting baptized. Consider this scripture:

Matt. 19:14 wrote:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


With this new policy, the LDS Church is breaking a commandment spoken by Jesus Christ during his mortal ministry: "Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come into me."

Then this:

D&C 68:25-27 wrote:25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.

27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.


Here the divine commandment is for children to be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old. There is no condition placed on this baptism. The scripture never says, "unless that child's parents are sinning in "x" way." This is very clear.

And whether it applies specifically, the larger principle of this canonized article of faith is something I think does apply.

Articles of Faith, 1:2 wrote:2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.


By denying baptism children who are eligible for it, according to canonized divine revelation, at the age of 8, and by penalizing children eligible for baptism because of the sin of their parents, the LDS Church has entered into apostasy.


Kish,
You are as adroit as ever, and I enjoy your ideas. However, there is just one thing you lack here. The fact (just ask him!..... Bednar, who else did ya think? Lol!) that the brethren ARE scripture. So, the living scripture trumps the dead stuff, yes? I have seen this justification by apologists already, and just wish to inform you of how out of date your concern here is. The Lord is at the helm, the church has never been stronger. All is well, Zion is on the way, let us partake of the fruit of bigotr.....er life, yeah, the fruit of life, and enjoy the spirit dwelling within our and the brethren's bigote.....er loving breasts, yes, enjoy the spirit in their loving breasts.....
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

Philo Sofee wrote:Kish,
You are as adroit as ever, and I enjoy your ideas. However, there is just one thing you lack here. The fact (just ask him!) that the brethren ARE scripture. So, the living scripture trumps the dead stuff, yes? I have seen this justification by apologists already, and just wish to inform you of how out of date your concern here is. The Lord is at the helm, the church has never been stronger. All is well, Zion is on the way, let us partake of the fruit of bigotr.....er life, yeah, the fruit of life, and enjoy the spirit dwelling within our and the brethren's bigote.....er loving breasts, yes, enjoy the spirit in their loving breasts.....


My dear Philo Sofee, how much I appreciate you coming to this humble thread to engage with me on this issue. Unfortunately for the Corpologetic position--because I deny them any portion of the name Mormon, which means "more good"--scripture is the measuring stick against which any teaching or policy must be measured. Since this policy is out of harmony with Holy Writ and contradicts the very words of Jesus Christ the Savior Himself, the Corporation has no claim to be the Church of Jesus Christ. Their priesthood authority has been terminated.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Tobin
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Tobin »

Kishkumen wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:Kish,
You are as adroit as ever, and I enjoy your ideas. However, there is just one thing you lack here. The fact (just ask him!) that the brethren ARE scripture. So, the living scripture trumps the dead stuff, yes? I have seen this justification by apologists already, and just wish to inform you of how out of date your concern here is. The Lord is at the helm, the church has never been stronger. All is well, Zion is on the way, let us partake of the fruit of bigotr.....er life, yeah, the fruit of life, and enjoy the spirit dwelling within our and the brethren's bigote.....er loving breasts, yes, enjoy the spirit in their loving breasts.....


My dear Philo Sofee, how much I appreciate you coming to this humble thread to engage with me on this issue. Unfortunately for the Corpologetic position--because I deny them any portion of the name Mormon, which means "more good"--scripture is the measuring stick against which any teaching or policy must be measured. Since this policy it out of harmony with Holy Writ and contradicts the very words of Jesus Christ the Savior Himself, the Corporation has no claim to be the Church of Jesus Christ. Their priesthood authority has been terminated.


:lol: I'm really getting a kick out of this line Kish. Keep it up. You can't really believe what you are saying though. You actually believed the LDS Church a few days ago was really God's church and had his magic powers and now they don't because they announced this policy? Too funny!!!
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_sock puppet
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _sock puppet »

Darth J wrote:the religion subsidiary of the LDS REIT is so obsessed with marginalizing gay people that it's abandoning its doctrines purporting to care about children and their spiritual welfare.

Never thought I'd see a reference to a REIT here at MDB, but very adroitly used to point out LDS priorities. (By the way, I set up one REIT for a client back in the late 1990s.)
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

Tobin wrote: :lol: I'm really getting a kick out of this line Kish. Keep it up. You can't really believe what you are saying though. You actually believed the LDS Church a few days ago was really God's church and had his magic powers and now they don't because they announced this policy? Too funny!!!


This is a distraction. I am telling you that according to their own canon, the former LDS Church is toast. Their priesthood authority is gone.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Darth J
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Re: The Apostasy of the LDS Church

Post by _Darth J »

sock puppet wrote:
Darth J wrote:the religion subsidiary of the LDS REIT is so obsessed with marginalizing gay people that it's abandoning its doctrines purporting to care about children and their spiritual welfare.

Never thought I'd see a reference to a REIT here at MDB, but very adroitly used to point out LDS priorities. (By the way, I set up one REIT for a client back in the late 1990s.)


The Westboro Baptist REIT of Latter-day Saints?
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