Darth J wrote:It's uncanny the way you conistently fail to correctly identify an issue.
I was going to say pretty much the same thing. What a strange interpretation of our objections to this policy.
You could say mentalgymnast's sense of ethics is that it's only wrong to tell a little kid Santa won't bring him any presents because his parents are disgusting if you also believe in Santa Claus yourself. Obviously this misapprehends the issue of empathy: regardless of what you believe, the kid believes it, and that's why it hurts him. Same deal if you don't believe in monsters, but you tell a little kid at night that there's a monster in her room.
You could say that, but it would be overstating things. Mentalgymnast's sense of ethics is "whatever the church says."
Darth J wrote:You could say mentalgymnast's sense of ethics is that it's only wrong to tell a little kid Santa won't bring him any presents because his parents are disgusting if you also believe in Santa Claus yourself. Obviously this misapprehends the issue of empathy: regardless of what you believe, the kid believes it, and that's why it hurts him. Same deal if you don't believe in monsters, but you tell a little kid at night that there's a monster in her room.
You could say that, but it would be overstating things. Mentalgymnast's sense of ethics is "whatever the church says."
I'm not calling out MG, but I will say that I have seen a clear lack of empathy in the responses of many people to this policy. Some of it has been quite shocking to me, though I'm not at all surprised to see it in some circles.
My favorite response is from some guy posting on Abulafia's Facebook wall: "The brethren are always right, and it's my job to find out why." I can't think of a better illustration of total abdication of moral responsibility.
At the great risk of appearing like I support MG and his many board contributions over this entire policy thing, I think it's worth (at least some worth) considering his below post.
I am not disagreeing with what many of you are posting to MG, all I am saying is that I found this quote to be............well........impressive.
Especially when you consider that he posted it on the MDB - In the middle of a freaking shit-storm.
How many other TBM's are here doing that?
Peace, Ceeboo
mentalgymnast wrote:Just trying like everyone else to navigate myself through this policy change...from a faithful perspective...and without checking in or disposing with my integrity.
Ceeboo wrote:At the great risk of appearing like I support MG and his many board contributions over this entire policy thing, I think it's worth (at least some worth) considering his below post.
I am not disagreeing with what many of you are posting to MG, all I am saying is that I found this quote to be............well........impressive.
Especially when you consider that he posted it on the MDB - In the middle of a freaking shit-storm.
How many other TBM's are here doing that?
Peace, Ceeboo
mentalgymnast wrote:Just trying like everyone else to navigate myself through this policy change...from a faithful perspective...and without checking in or disposing with my integrity.
You're missing the problem. His comment here implies he has ethical misgivings about this policy but he's going to support it anyway because the church said so.
sock puppet wrote:Please link me to the post where you identified the people hurt and the type of people that this policy advantages. I must have not seen that one.
Earlier in the thread...I think it was this one or one of the others dealing with this issue(don't have time to look it up right now, other things going on in real life)...I had talked about what the brethren see as going on and will go on at the macro and micro level. At the micro level, on the ground...people you and I know...there are going to be some folks that are hurt and experience disillusionment, etc. At the macro level they see a gradual evening out with things settling back to a 'new' normal where the policy pushes the church into more of a black/white position on the SSM issue. Kids will adjust...and so on. I'm not saying it's all pretty. The brethren see the long range collateral damage as being less than the short term problems. And the problems that come up 'in between the lines', so to speak, will be taken care of at that micro level.
So, the people downstream...meaning the church as a whole, will benefit at a macro level and at the micro level things will gradually come back to some sort of homeostasis or new normal.
Darth J wrote: You're missing the problem. His comment here implies he has ethical misgivings about this policy but he's going to support it anyway because the church said so.
I'm not convinced that I am missing anything - nor am I convinced that this quote implies what you suggest it does.
But - even if you are 100% correct, how many other devout Mormons have posted something similar to what he has on the MDB - right in the middle of a shit-storm?
As a matter of fact, other than MG, how many TBM's have engaged this community at all over this entire debacle?
All I am saying is that I give him a whole lot more credit than I do to the many deafening and silent voices that are not speaking on the MDB.
Ceeboo wrote:I'm not convinced that I am missing anything - nor am I convinced that this quote implies what you suggest it does.
But - even if you are 100% correct, how many other devout Mormons have posted something similar to what he has on the MDB - right in the middle of a shit-storm?
As a matter of fact, other than MG, how many TBM's have engaged this community at all over this entire debacle?
All I am saying is that I give him a whole lot more credit than I do to the many deafening and silent voices that are not speaking on the MDB.
Peace, Ceeboo
Yep. Earlier I said that MG's "stupid or inspired" comment shows that he is struggling with the policy, but I'm not surprised that he was willing to accept the decision as a matter of faith. I don't have a problem with that. I was dismayed at his quoting a really bad piece defending the policy, as well as his weird misunderstanding of why people like me think the policy is so outrageous.
