DNA Evidence Proves Book of Mormon True

[_Themis]

It is interesting, then, that members of this board--as rational individuals--seek technical information from only one such professional. I suppose that is a good way to get an answer that aligns with your already held belief.

Regards,
MG

Showing off you ignorance and bias again. Just assume people here are getting information from just one person who is the most knowledgeable on this board. So blinded you cannot see your own bias.

[_Prester John]

So is he the guy you let tell you how to think?

O Chap! How the sins of this generation must cause you to be baptized by fire and by ice and be built upon the rock of the redeemer for ever and ever, amen.

My opinion is formed by both non Mormon and Mormon geneticists.

Kairos's isn't. Instead of generating a unique thought in his head, he simply called out "O Simon Southerton, please impart thy knowledge so that we might know how to think."

Or maybe ... just maybe you read what people say and form an opinion on that basis?

Yes, from more experts than just Southerton. This is not true of the poster kairos, which is why I commented on this thread.

Do you do that? If so, what is your current opinion on the substance of the questions raised in this thread? Or am I asking you to ... um ... 'grandstand' or 'showboat', or something else meriting an epithet that smears vague contempt and disapproval over another person's views without in any way engaging with those views?

O Chap! I do not disapprove of anyone's views that have been derived from careful study of the issues from experts on all sides of a given topic. In contrast, kairos simply said "Southerton, please comest down from on high and declare thy gospel upon us. Tell us what to think. Tell us how to think."

That's my gripe.

[_Themis]

Kairos's isn't. Instead of generating a unique thought in his head, he simply called out "O Simon Southerton, please impart thy knowledge so that we might know how to think."

I thought lying is considered a sin by you. Maybe you should stop lying. He simply asked someone who posts here and is known to have a lot of expertise on the subject to comment. You can go to Simon's site and see that he links to many others for those who wants to get information from a range of sources. Simon even quotes someone you agree is an expert on the subject about Meldrums claims.

[_Chap]

...

Do you do that? If so, what is your current opinion on the substance of the questions raised in this thread? Or am I asking you to ... um ... 'grandstand' or 'showboat', or something else meriting an epithet that smears vague contempt and disapproval over another person's views without in any way engaging with those views?

O Chap!

Why the weird allocutionary style? What do you think this is, the Just-so stories? Or, like Alice, did you see it in your brother's Latin grammar?

I do not disapprove of anyone's views that have been derived from careful study of the issues from experts on all sides of a given topic. In contrast, kairos simply said "Southerton, please comest down from on high and declare thy gospel upon us. Tell us what to think. Tell us how to think."

That's my gripe.

Your sneers about 'grandstanding' and 'showboating' were not directed at kairos, but at DrW.

But you knew that ...

Incidentally, what is your current provisional view on the substance of the question raised in this thread, i.e. the relation between DNA evidence, and the truth-status of the Book of Mormon?

[_Simon Southerton]

(What about input from Perego or Parr?)

What about it? It would be great if they were to show up and give an opinion. Somehow I doubt that will happen - and for good reason.

What reason is that? Is your opinion worth more than Perego's? I am pretty sure Dr. Perego has more training in this matter than you do, even given your showboating.

I provided Perego's response to Meldrum, where he slams his Jewish (X lineage) DNA claims, but that isn't good enough for you. Perego has to join the group and post and comment. It's hard to take you seriously when FARMS and FAIR apologists have also shredded the claims that Meldrum makes in the video.

Clearly this isn't about the truth of Meldrum's claims, it's about attacking the person (Kairos). A well worn apologetic tactic.

[Guest]

Why the weird allocutionary style? What do you think this is, the Just-so stories? Or, like Alice, did you see it in your brother's Latin grammar?

Are you certain that's a word, Chap? I am familiar with locution, illocution, and perlocution, but allocution? I suppose you're the linguist, and not I.

I get your meaning, though. I was inspired by the prophet Nightlion to speak in the prophetic manner.

Incidentally, what is your current provisional view on the substance of the question raised in this thread, i.e. the relation between DNA evidence, and the truth-status of the Book of Mormon?

I don't know, and I'm fine with that.

[_Prester John]

Clearly this isn't about the truth of Meldrum's claims, it's about attacking the person (Kairos). A well worn apologetic tactic.

You have me all wrong, SS. I just found it funny that Kairos' immediate reaction to information he wasn't aware of was to yelp "O SS, where art thou? Tell me what to think." I was commenting on the absurdity of it all; I have no problem with Kairos.

[_Chap]

O Chap!

Why the weird allocutionary style? What do you think this is, the Just-so stories? Or, like Alice, did you see it in your brother's Latin grammar?

Are you certain that's a word, Chap? I am familiar with locution, illocution, and perlocution, but allocution? I suppose you're the linguist, and not I.

Good gracious, do you think that there is a list of 'real' words somewhere, brought down from the mountain by Moses? Every word had to be created sometime - and the high-end stuff comes from the way people like you and me talk. Dictionaries simply record our wondrous acts of creativity. But surely an educated person such as you ('familiar with locution, illocution, and perlocution') would surely have expected 'allocution' to pop up sooner or later in the sense of 'the act of addressing someone'? I mean Latin and all that. A guy like you will surely have met 'adloquor'.

But I can't claim credit for introducing 'allocution' to decent society. Just consult your online OED, and you will see:

Brit. allocution#_gb_1.8.mp3 /ˌaləˈkjuːʃn/ , U.S. /ˌæləˈkjuʃ(ə)n/
Forms: 16–17 adlocution, 16– allocution.
Frequency (in current use):
Etymology: A borrowing from Latin. Etymons: Latin allocūtiōn-, allocūtiō, adlocūtiōn-, adlocūtiō.
< classical Latin allocūtiōn-, allocūtiō (also adlocūtiōn-, adlocūtiō... (Show More)
Thesaurus »

1. The action or (more usually) an act of formally addressing a speech to someone, or of delivering an exhortation or moralizing address; a speech, statement, or (occas.) remark of this kind.
1615 T. Adams White Deuill (ed. 4) 109 That comfortable allocution. Good and faithfull seruant, enter into thy masters ioy.
a1656 Bp. J. Hall Invisible World (1659) iii. xi. 205 Entertaine them [sc. angels]..with awfull observances, with spirituall allocutions.
a1677 I. Barrow Treat. Pope's Supremacy (1683) 265 It is observable how the Synod of Chalcedon in their allocution to the Emperour Marcian do excuse P. Leo for expounding the faith in his Epistle.
a1716 J. Edwards Doctr. controverted between Papists & Protestants (1724) xv. 375 These Rhetorical Allocutions to the Dead were one Original of Praying to them.
1848 Thackeray Vanity Fair xlix. 435 After this vigorous allocution, to..his ‘Hareem’.
1869 Blackwood's Edinb. Mag. Sept. 345/1 The Don't-nail-his-ear-to-the-pump allocutions with which he exhorted his flock against landlord murder were read with admiration in England.
1899 H. James Awkward Age ii. v. 45 Her colour, during her visitor's allocution, had distinctly risen.
1921 S. Gordon Avenger vii. 202 ‘All I can say is’, Mrs. Cripps concluded her allocution, ‘get back to your own. Get back to Curley.’
1983 Gesta 22 32/2 As they [sc. deacons] prostrate themselves at his feet, he will say the allocution to the people, ‘Sit nobis fratres.’
2001 Hamilton (Ontario) Spectator (Nexis) 16 July b2 Bhutros Bhutros Gali..ended his short allocution with a hearty ‘vive la Francophonie’.

'Allocutionary' has been around for quite a while too, though I grant you it is a bit more limited in its number of active users:

Discourse Acts and Conversation: A Game of Allocutionary Choices
Goletti, Lucia
Studi italiani di linguistica teorica e applicata, ISSN 0390-6809, 01/1992, Volume 21, Issue 1-3, pp. 267 - 276

Allocutionary strategies in face-to-face conversation are the focus of an analysis of five French plays by Jean Anouilh. Roles & interpretive relations are represented graphically, & the influence of extralinguistic factors is assessed. The conversation is viewed as a verbal game in which the speaker manipulates lexical & pronominal forms of address to his/her advantage. In one excerpt, an act of physical violence is preceded by verbal moves santioning the transgressor's penetration of the victim's privacy. Successive moves are shown to destroy, in sequence, (1) understanding & the element of balance in (2) the interpersonal relationship, (3) pronoun selection, & (4) allocutionary choice. Changes in dyadic authority structure are marked by temporary freedom of allocutionary usage. References. J. Hitchcock

Incidentally, what is your current provisional view on the substance of the question raised in this thread, i.e. the relation between DNA evidence, and the truth-status of the Book of Mormon?

I don't know, and I'm fine with that.

Don't know what, I wonder? Could it be:

1. Don't know anything about the general topic area of the 'relation between DNA evidence, and the truth-status of the Book of Mormon'?

2. Don't know whether DNA evidence impacts positively on the truth-status of the Book of Mormon, or negatively?

It can hardly be (1), because that would tend to imply that you wouldn't know anything about Perego, Southerton et al., which you obviously do. If it is (2), I suspect the existence of a heavily loaded shelf somewhere.

[_Fence Sitter]

Incidentally, what is your current provisional view on the substance of the question raised in this thread, i.e. the relation between DNA evidence, and the truth-status of the Book of Mormon?

I don't know, and I'm fine with that.

Prester John,

It is strange that on the one hand you criticize people for not seeking more opinions than one regarding the OP, while at the same time offering up names of LDS DNA experts for those other opinions without even being able to provide any of your own opinions on what those other names have to offer.

How is throwing out random names without knowing what they think better than asking one person known to be knowledgeable in the field?

[_Maureen]

...O Chap! I do not disapprove of anyone's views that have been derived from careful study of the issues from experts on all sides of a given topic. In contrast, kairos simply said "Southerton, please comest down from on high and declare thy gospel upon us. Tell us what to think. Tell us how to think."

That's my gripe.

The problem with your gripe is that what you think kairos said and meant is not true. If you go back and actually read what kairos wrote, you will see that what you think he said is not reflected in his words. kairos asked for an expert's knowledge on the subject. Anything else you think he meant is all in your imagination.

M.