Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

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_Rosebud
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Rosebud »

Mary wrote:I should add also, that the brother's account of his meeting with Micklesen and his SP indicates that Micklesen was not above using his church office to threaten members on personal matters and to call their loyalty into question.

So, if anyone is a corrupt, vindictive, controlling a**hole here, it is Micklesen imho.


This is why: If the daughter really was a victim of sexual abuse and if Mikelsen really was the only perpetrator, then Karren's ex-wife was also a victim of her father. If Karren's ex-wife was a victim of her father, then her father also holds things over her head snd I see hee actions as the actions of a victim protecting a perpetrator. Possibly Stockholm syndrome. It may be that Karren's ex-wife has more to escape from than we know. But we don't know.

I base my judgements of Karren on Karren's action and Karren's words. He is the one supplying information about himself. No one else is talking. Also, I don't really feel like character is the right word. It's too, idk, too much something that connotes the way one is perceived socially. I'm not after anyone's character or reputation, I'm analyzing the actions and words of someone who has walked into the public realm to make a public accusation of the worst kind of crime. He has opened himself up to this.

Also, as for my bias: I love men. Not all men act like this. Frankly, I get along better with men than women. Always have. From my perspective, I'm working to avoid bias because I'm not assuming M is guilty until proven innocent because I'm a former Mormon or because I am invested in victims' voices being heard. But that's the problem. We're listening to someone who is proving himself to be an abusive partner. We're not listening to victims. Even if K's daughter does speak, I will already know the way her father has behaved towards his wife and family and I won't know if she is protecting her abusive father in the same way K's ex-wife might be protecting her abusive father. Victims will protect perpetrators and accuse other perpetrators. In other words, this is my assessment because I have studied how abuse in families works.

At some point we may not know if we have two victims protecting two perpetrators. Each victim a daughter and each perpetrator a father. This is why I talk about women being pawns. Victims are used like chess pieces in larger strategies. How will we ever know what really happened here?

EDITS: phone typos, finishing thoughts
Last edited by Guest on Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document
_Rosebud
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Rosebud »

(Also, as RI has pointed out repetitively, K didn't get immediate treatment for his daughter when she was 6. He makes excuses for this, but it's not in his favor that he waited.)
Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document
_Rosebud
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Rosebud »

One more thought before I run: I actually feel like I'm being protective of men in general. Men are more suscepitible to being pegged as guilty of false accusations of abuse because, frankly, men are more violent (sorry, men, this is a statistical reality). I think it would be dangerous for men in general if we took the attitude that every time one is publicly accused of a heinous crime, it must be true.

But if had little kids, I wouldn't let any of the players in this mess anywhere near any of them: women included. I protect my own.
Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document
_AmyJo
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _AmyJo »

Mary wrote:Rosebud, I appreciate your perspective, but do you think that your biases are being projected on to Karren?

I get that men can be domineering assholes. I get that they can have strong, stubborn views. But to paint Jean as the victim in all this is a little sad. I just don't see marriage like that. If any one of us wanted to divorce I am sure we could find a 1000 reasons based on the faults of the other, to do it.

I honestly think that concentrating on Ron's character is relevant only in so far as he is a reliable witness to the events, and the core events seem to stack up.
If the wife is denying her own daughter's abuse by her father then it shows, at least in Karren's eyes that she is willing to put loyalty to her own father above the well being of her daughter. She could corroborate her daughter's abuse by fully admitting that she received a phonecall from her father about Kylee being *promiscuous* with him. As it stands, if Kylee is telling the truth, and I believe she is, then the mother is willing to invalidate her daughter's experience and abuse, and that is seriously f**ked up.


Good points, Mary.

I've heard repeated 1000 times over how a daughter goes to the mother to tell of abuse that is happening by her father/stepfather/ or in this case grandfather, and in Kylee's case the mom sides with her father at the expense of her daughter - to protect her relationship to him instead of protecting her daughter from the perpetrator.

The mom is as guilty in this regard as her father is/was toward his young victim.

She even sacrificed her marriage because of it. She threw her daughter and her husband, Ron, under the train in order to maintain the facade in her family that her daddy could do no wrong. Instead of helping Kylee, her family set out to destroy Ronald because they saw him as a protagonist who was not going to let gramps off the hook like she did.
_AmyJo
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _AmyJo »

Mary wrote:I should add also, that the brother's account of his meeting with Micklesen and his SP indicates that Micklesen was not above using his church office to threaten members on personal matters and to call their loyalty into question.

So, if anyone is a corrupt, vindictive, controlling a**hole here, it is Micklesen imho.


Yet another coverup from SLC headquarters. If it quacks, waddles and splashes like a duck chances are it is.
_AmyJo
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _AmyJo »

kairos wrote:Do you think that Karren's "you know you are not going to get the kids" set off the alarms for his wife and the Mickelson tribe including getting apostle Scott involved to get as many affidavits as possible to show/prove etc Karren was abusive/unfit/uncontrollable blah blah so wife would get a chance at getting the kids?

I appreciate all your insights on the thread- my sense is he is repeating and exaggerating but on the key issue imho something abusive did happen to the daughter. notice how the wife has said that karren put the daughter "up to it" eg the accusations. of course Karren is trying to put together a conspiracy against himself type argument and he too weaves all he can into that theory.

what do you think the outcome will be?

k


It started before that when the wife disappeared on the morning he went to work, taking their children with her to her father's compound in Idaho.

It was there they tried to turn their children against Ronald. He was still courageous enough to say to her in the face of her walking out like that with their children that she wasn't going to keep them.

If someone's abusive the children do not get awarded to the abuser. If she was really keen in protecting her children from him like herself she would've gone to the depths of hell to save them from their father. And yet she put her tail between her legs and slinked away. She had the money to fight but did not.

It's the silence that tells volumes in the aftermath. Why didn't she go to bat for her kids? What was it she was hiding, or rather who is it she was protecting because it sure as heck wasn't them.

She was in her daddy's pockets, and still is.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Has anyone seen the divorce decree, and would there be any sort of summary judgement against the ex-wife for absconding with the children? In other words, could custody have been awarded to K because his ex took the kids out of school, out of their neighborhood, away from their father... Basically upending their lives rather than actually having been molested?

I'm pretty certain a judge woildn't look favorably on that.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Dub-dub-dub-DOUBLE POOOOOOOOST!
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Rosebud
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Rosebud »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Has anyone seen the divorce decree, and would there be any sort of summary judgement against the ex-wife for absconding with the children? In other words, could custody have been awarded to K because his ex took the kids out of school, out of their neighborhood, away from their father... Basically upending their lives rather than actually having been molested?

I'm pretty certain a judge woildn't look favorably on that.

- Doc


My impression is that Karren used the mistake of his ex-wife's attorney (via the covert recording he made) to get the attorney to back down and at that point the ex-wife settled and they made an agreed-upon divorce decree in which the ex-wife gave Karren primary custody (primary is different than full) of older kids. In other words, the divorce decree didn't come because of any judgment made (although this is still an assumption because Karren hasn't been clear) but because Karren used a covert recording.

Again, this makes me see the ex-wife as the victim. Even her attorney abandoned her; the attorney needed to save her own skin and Karren's ex-wife gave in to pressure from Karren and then from her own attorney.)

EDIT: typo that affected meaning

But I don't feel like we have enough information about this yet.
Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document
_AmyJo
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _AmyJo »

Rosebud wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Has anyone seen the divorce decree, and would there be any sort of summary judgement against the ex-wife for absconding with the children? In other words, could custody have been awarded to K because his ex took the kids out of school, out of their neighborhood, away from their father... Basically upending their lives rather than actually having been molested?

I'm pretty certain a judge woildn't look favorably on that.

- Doc


My impression is that Karren used the mistake of his ex-wife's attorney (via the covert recording he made) to get the attorney to back down and at that point the ex-wife settled and they made an agreed-upon divorce decree in which the ex-wife gave Karren primary custody (primary is different than full) of older kids. In other words, the divorce decree didn't come because of any judgment made (although this is still an assumption because Karren hasn't been clear) but because Karren used a covert recording.

Again, this makes me see the ex-wife as the victim. Even her attorney abandoned her; the attorney needed to save her own skin and Karren's ex-wife gave in to pressure from Karren and then from her own attorney.)

EDIT: typo that affected meaning

But I don't feel like we have enough information about this yet.


Her daddy Warbuckles paid for her attorney, so the attorney was in daddy's pockets too.

Why didn't he/daughter find another attorney to fight tooth and nail for her children? Why?

Because it was his self-interest he was protecting. Not hers, or her children's.
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