Science is a tool that can be abused!

[_DrW]

Hello there Franktalk,

While I greatly appreciate your seeming designation of me as being among the 'men of science', my guess would be that scientifically literate folks like Spotlight, Gunnar, Chap, Maksutov and others on this board would not hold the same view. One would have to dig pretty far and fairly deep (back to 1976 or so) to find me on any list of 'men of science'.

Likewise, I would guess that the individuals mentioned above would not consider my ego (or that of other scientifically literate folks) as inflated for simply providing scientific facts and insights to counter the fantastical, irrational, and usually just plain erroneous, statements that you and certain other woo-woo artists are prone to make on this board.

It would seem that your latest attempt to insult science and scientists has flown wide of the mark, yet again.

Thanks for the response. And thank you for making the point I was attempting to make. In your comment you admit to a hierarchy in science. Thanks.

You are welcome. However, I would have to say that arguing that there is a hierarchy in science (as in any other worthwhile endeavor) is pretty much like arguing that the sky is blue.

[_Franktalk]

I do believe that if Socrates were alive today Spotlight would write the same things to him that he writes to me. I think we have not grown in our thinking over the ages. Oh yes we have some toys but real thinking has gone away. So sad to see.

[_Maksutov]

I do believe that if Socrates were alive today Spotlight would write the same things to him that he writes to me. I think we have not grown in our thinking over the ages. Oh yes we have some toys but real thinking has gone away. So sad to see.

Sad indeed that we have that toy the Hubble Space Telescope instead of investing all of that money in broadcasting your inanities to the world. Sad for you. You must hate that science is so popular and successful and your "philosophy" is not. So sad.

[_Franktalk]

You are welcome. However, I would have to say that arguing that there is a hierarchy in science (as in any other worthwhile endeavor) is pretty much like arguing that the sky is blue.

I agree completely. Now I feel that the structures that men build are for the benefit of men. This is part of the physical world. I just happen to believe in a greater reality. We of course can hold various opinions on that topic. But the structures to me are not doing the best we can. To me they are used to control people and their free will. I prefer to seek knowledge inside. Of course we can disagree on that as well.

[_Franktalk]

Sad indeed that we have that toy the Hubble Space Telescope instead of investing all of that money in broadcasting your inanities to the world. Sad for you. You must hate that science is so popular and successful and your "philosophy" is not. So sad.

Yes it is sad that man has spent money on pictures of the stars instead of feeding people. It is sad that people like you think that pictures of space are more important than answering real questions. The questions - Who am I? For what purpose do I exist? What happens when I die?

[Guest]

Sad indeed that we have that toy the Hubble Space Telescope instead of investing all of that money in broadcasting your inanities to the world. Sad for you. You must hate that science is so popular and successful and your "philosophy" is not. So sad.

Yes it is sad that man has spent money on pictures of the stars instead of feeding people. It is sad that people like you think that pictures of space are more important than answering real questions. The questions - Who am I? For what purpose do I exist? What happens when I die?

Science has saved millions of lives, Frank. Ever heard of polio? How about the spiritual giants in India, did they feed their people? Nope. Your inner journey hasn't answered those "real questions" either--people disagree about them the world over and have for thousands of years. Shamanism is no future for humanity, Frank, even for Eloi like yourself. You didn't pray or meditate your way onto this board, the web had to be invented by scientists and maintained by engineers, the people you disdain. Show me anything that your inner journey has revealed that can compare with what I can show you from science.

[_spotlight]

I do believe that if Socrates were alive today Spotlight would write the same things to him that he writes to me. I think we have not grown in our thinking over the ages. Oh yes we have some toys but real thinking has gone away. So sad to see.

What gets a pass as respectable changes with time. I believe you made this very argument crowing that what the science community accepted today would one day be overturned through future discoveries. In this manner Socrates' beliefs have been overturned.

The things that don't get discarded are the facts upon which the theories are founded. And as long as a theory describes those facts with any degree of accuracy it will remain throughout time. Such will be the case for the laws of Newton for example. They will always be as accurate as they are today though a theory of everything may have supplanted them at some point in the future.

Plato thought that the soul could and would exist apart from the body and would exist after the death of the body. He offered a "proof" for this position and was the first to do so in writing that we have any evidence of doing so. He offered several different proofs or arguments none of which are convincing today. They are held to be specious arguments or terribly flawed and unconvincing. He held that humans were composed of bodies and souls but the soul was more important and immortal. His arguments used premises which we question today. For example, Plato thought that he could conclude that the soul could exist independent of the body because it acted independently from the body when it engaged in pure thought. This is no longer accepted as true since it is equally evident today that without a physical brain thought appears unlikely to occur. Plato thought that the only way to explain how people come to know things is that they are remembering the knowledge implanted in their souls when the souls were in the realm of pure thought and eternal forms before entering into the body after which they forgot as they became confused by physical emotions an feelings and limited experiences through the senses. This is no longer accepted as the best explanation of how people come to have knowledge. None the less, Plato is credited with being the first human to attempt to set out any sort of a proof that humans had souls and that they survived the death of the body and that they were immortal. He offered these arguments in the Dialogue he wrote titled the PHAEDO.
http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/SocialSciences/ ... UALISM.htm

[Guest]

Hello there Franktalk,

While I greatly appreciate your seeming designation of me as being among the 'men of science', my guess would be that scientifically literate folks like Spotlight, Gunnar, Chap, Maksutov and others on this board would not hold the same view. One would have to dig pretty far and fairly deep (back to 1976 or so) to find me on any list of 'men of science'.

DrW, I have no idea who you are in real life, but I would be surprised if your name is not to be found on any list of "men of science." It is obvious by comparing my posts with yours that my scientific knowledge and acumen pales into insignificance compared to yours. I don't even hold any advanced science degrees of any kind. I am a just curious, semi-intelligent layman trying to learn what I can about the real world and make sense of it by my own, independent reading and study. I may be more scientifically literate than the average layman, but I don't hold a candle to you or any of the others on your list above.

Likewise, I would guess that the individuals mentioned above would not consider my ego (or that of other scientifically literate folks) as inflated for simply providing scientific facts and insights to counter the fantastical, irrational, and usually just plain erroneous, statements that you and certain other woo-woo artists are prone to make on this board.

On this point, I am in full agreement with you. I, for one, certainly do not consider your ego inflated. Franktalk accusing you of having an inflated ego is pure projection on his part. I have never encountered a more inflated ego than his!

It would seem that your latest attempt to insult science and scientists has flown wide of the mark, yet again.

For sure!

[Guest]

DrW, I have no idea who you are in real life, but I would be surprised if your name is not to be found on any list of "men of science." It is obvious by comparing my posts with yours that my scientific knowledge and acumen pales into insignificance compared to yours. I don't even hold any advanced science degrees of any kind. I am a just curious, semi-intelligent layman trying to learn what I can about the real world and make sense of it by my own, independent reading and study. I may be more scientifically literate than the average layman, but I don't hold a candle to you or any of the others on your list above.

Brothers and sisters we are so blessed today to have with us a member of the Seventy. I am sure the words we will hear will give our spirit a lift so we may be closer to God.

Hey Gunnar, I just rewrote your post to make it clear just who you worship.

[Guest]

DrW, I have no idea who you are in real life, but I would be surprised if your name is not to be found on any list of "men of science." It is obvious by comparing my posts with yours that my scientific knowledge and acumen pales into insignificance compared to yours. I don't even hold any advanced science degrees of any kind. I am a just curious, semi-intelligent layman trying to learn what I can about the real world and make sense of it by my own, independent reading and study. I may be more scientifically literate than the average layman, but I don't hold a candle to you or any of the others on your list above.

Brothers and sisters we are so blessed today to have with us a member of the Seventy. I am sure the words we will hear will give our spirit a lift so we may be closer to God.

Hey Gunnar, I just rewrote your post to make it clear just who you worship.

Give it a rest Frank. By your definition of the word you worship yourself.