At the 57 minute mark, Bushman says the church must change because the narrative is not true. It will be hardest for the older members, but necessary for the church.
That is an earthshaking moment.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Busman observed, particularly about Packer's focus on saving the "little people": "The price of protecting the grandmothers was losing the grandsons." That has been a short-sighted trade-off, decided by Packer, himself then a grandfather.
Jersey Girl wrote:ETA: Look at the first lengthy comment below. The poster ticks off a list of statements and gives the video times for them.
This one?
David Wheeler
Notes: - If you keep a journal, you will live a better life. - "We have to reconstruct the narrative" (comment from a struggling member at one of their meetings in DC) - This all started in 1950's when LDS members started getting degrees in social scientists (small #) and for the 1st time, Mormon scholars began to be trusted by non-Mormon scholars. - When these members began writing about things that were unfamiliar, 'insiders' were skeptical of their sources and some said they were 'anti-Mormon' - Scholarly information being released began to not match up with lessons being taught by the church (like stone in the hat) - Some members began to feel ('somewhat illogical') that the church leaders had been lying to them all along as if they leaders knew it all. - The church has been trying to adjust to this new material over the last few years. - The policy of transparency governs church history - Official policy is to tell history straight [~49:45] - The goal is to teach so that no one feels shocked at the history [~50:30] - Church of Christ is letting the Book of Mormon fade away [~53:30] - "I think for the church to remain strong it has to reconstruct its narrative. The dominate narrative is not true. It can't be sustained. So, the church has to absorb all this new information, or it will be on very shaky ground. And that is what it is trying to do. And it will be a strain for a lot people, older people especially." [~57:00] - "I am staring down the barrel of a historical shotgun..." You can't hid the historical information from your children. You have to be humble about it. "Well, I have a different view on this..." [~1:00:00] - Testimony patters [~1:10:00] - "Does the church have to admit it was wrong in order to re-write its narrative?" [~1:13:00] - What is your role in the church? [~1:16:00] - A Relief Society teacher struggles to teach with what she has learned and still wants to be sensitive to those who hold to the old narrative. [1:19:00] - If you believe in Christ, you are going to be okay. [~1:33:00] - Following a prophet. [~1:36:00] - How do we deal with the tension between evolving and "cleaning house"? [~1:40:00] - What do you mean by evolution? [~1:43:00] - What is your view of Joseph Smith as a man and Joseph Smith as a prophet? [~1:56:00] - Keep a daily journal. [~2:01:00]
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I don't think he'll have a 'Court of Love' over this, rather this is the beginning of a soft shift to a transitioning organization that's more friendly to Millennials and future generations. The Church has to change in order to be relevant 30-100 years from now.
Remember, the more Orthodox members aren't the primary tithers at this point. It's the Gen X'ers and Millennials. That's where the money is at and they're bleeding members left and right due to their intransigence. The Church is, first and foremost, an employer here in the valley. Getting rid of the Mopologists was a clear shot across the bow of the Old Mo-guard. I expect the homosexual thing to go down the memory hole in 10-15 years as the Church 'progresses'.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I don't talk to to many tbms anymore, but when I do we invariably talk about the church. Every freaking time the discussion starts going to the problems etc, they bring up Bushman. In their world, Bushman knows the problems and believes just like they do so their world is still ok. TBMs are not going to like what he said, at all. He is really all they have and they don't even have them anymore. Where is a tbm to turn?
FARMS spent years making fun of the Dominant LDS narrative and saying it's not true.
Didn't Nelson just say that the Book of Mormon isn't a history textbook?
He's right, but unless he meant it's not a history text because it's more primary and accurate than any history text, then he's in apostasy.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.