Leaked videos of meetings with the Q15

[_Lemmie]

It wasn't until grindael and Lemmie came along the things kind of went wonky. It's taken a while since they've been here, but I've resigned myself to the fact that this dynamic probably won't change.

Unfortunately I think this is the simple truth. Time will tell.

oh good grief. What a liar you are!! You are ridiculous with this story about how things used to be different before "grindael and Lemmie" came along.

What possesses you to keep repeating lies when the written record exists and has been used to disprove you already? I disproved the same lies 3 days ago and I'm happy to do it again:

lol, mg. You need to read more. Literally dozens of posters on this board have commented, repeatedly,over a very long time frame, on your consistent use of logical fallacies, statistical irrelevancies, your intellectually dishonest debate and discussion style, and your disingenuous posting habits. You are not a regular guy being singled out.

I did a quick search, here's just one comment from the top of the list. From 2/2105, about 3 months before I joined:

... You are still just making things up as you go. This is why your ramblings are illogical and inconsistent. Even with ideas you have made up on other threads. You would be better off to just be honest and say you have no clue.

And here's one from DrW, all the way back in 2013:

MentalGymnast,

From the content of your first post on this thread, I would say that your screen name is apt and that you are very good at what you do in that regard.

Unfortunately, your mental gymnastic skills, as applied here, do not appear to be of value, real or perceived, to anyone but you.

On the other hand, you could be joking, and if that's the case, then well done.

And from way back in 2007!

But, why I bothering with this I don't know. The original post depends on a ... straw man concocted by someone who calls themselves "mentalgymnast." That alone speaks volumes.

Your memory is certainly different from the documented record.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43532&p=1004103#p1004103

That's quotes from February 2015, 2013, and 2007. I joined in May 2015.

You are just cementing your reputation as a liar, mentalgymnast. Why you keep stating things that are so easily proven wrong I will never know. Your reputation here has absolutely NOTHING to do with your religious beliefs and everything to do with your penchant for stunts like the lies above.

[_mentalgymnast]

I did a quick search, here's just one comment from the top of the list. From 2/2105, about 3 months before I joined:

... You are still just making things up as you go. This is why your ramblings are illogical and inconsistent. Even with ideas you have made up on other threads. You would be better off to just be honest and say you have no clue.

Let's go ahead and look at this first thread/conversation you linked to. If we go to:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37071&p=870146

the comment from Themis will be found. If you read through the WHOLE PAGE I think you will find that your concluding statement in your most recent post is inaccurate...to put it kindly.

I'm not "lying". I'm discussing. At the time and place I'm having a conversation...for example on the page I linked to from your post...I am doing JUST that. Are you saying that in that time and place I was intentionally and/or maliciously LYING?

Not.

If that is what you are insinuating/saying...you are pretty much putting the brakes on having any kind of 'on the fly' discussion where people can either misspeak...unintentionally...or back up and reconfigure/reformulate their own thinking. If you are in favor of putting the brakes on honest discussion you are also, in a sense, saying that the thinking has already been done and all the answers are known. I don't believe they are.

I was LEARNING in that discussion...and many others. Others might have learned something useful from what I said here and there also. How can I or others learning without formulating ideas and throwing them around? And so it goes.

Thanks for the link. It was fun to go back and read that conversation/discussion.

Why would you seek to inhibit those kinds of discussions where varying ideas/points are thrown around? I have consistently said over the years that I throw stuff against the wall to see if it sticks. That is not lying. I've also readily admitted that sometimes things don't stick.

Why take an issue with the fact that THIS is my modus operandi?

I can see, however, that this does bother you and some others.

I am comfortable in my own skin in each and every one of the conversations I've had. After all, I'm the one that has to live with myself at the end of the day.

by the way, as evidenced in the ONE link that was at the top of your list we can see that it is important to look at full context. To simply say someone is "lying" from cherry picking is a bit disingenuous.

Again, you said:

You are just cementing your reputation as a liar, mentalgymnast. Why you keep stating things that are so easily proven wrong I will never know. Your reputation here has absolutely NOTHING to do with your religious beliefs and everything to do with your penchant for stunts like the lies above.

I am not performing "stunts" and "telling lies".

I AM doing mentalgymnastics. Is that inherently evil/bad? I don't think so. In fact, it's kind of fun. Have you ever attempted to do so?

Regards,
MG

[_cwald]

[

I AM doing mentalgymnastics. Is that inherently evil/bad?

Regards,
MG

I don't know if it evil, but it is dishonest and disingenuous.

[_mentalgymnast]

[

I AM doing mentalgymnastics. Is that inherently evil/bad?

Regards,
MG

I don't know if it evil, but it is dishonest and disingenuous.

That's where you and I would disagree.

Regards,
MG

[_honorentheos]

To be fair MG, I do think you offer a unique perspective for MDB posters and draw a fair amount of as hominal attacks. You also give some and let the "live and let live" response take the place of discussion which I think frustrates people looking for more substantial justifications of your positions. I recent revisited MDD and was reminded of how easily responses from the home team peanut gallery can fail to reflect on the actual substance of the discussion, though, and it's fair to say you get some of that here too.

[_Jersey Girl]

Sure thing, mental, it's all me.

It does take two to tango. I suppose I should bow out...

I hope?

Regards,
MG

You hope? What does that even mean? Are you chained to the computer? Being held prisoner in your home or something? You have no control over whether or not you bow out? You're unable to make a decision? Did some intruder duct tape your fingers together leaving you helpless to operate your computer and click out of the thread so you're trapped here forever? Are you super glued to your own blathering?

[_grindael]

It wasn't until grindael and Lemmie came along the things kind of went wonky. It's taken a while since they've been here...Let's go ahead and look at this first thread/conversation you linked to. If we go to:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37071&p=870146

And who DIDN'T make even one comment on that thread? ME. But from that thread directed at Mental:

You are still just making things up as you go. This is why your ramblings are illogical and inconsistent. Even with ideas you have made up on other threads. You would be better off to just be honest and say you have no clue. People die in the wilds without any divine help. Even LDS. You say priesthood is key, yet cannot show any difference in results from those blessed and those not. Then you move to God doesn't want to provide proof of his existence because we need to have blind faith. But then God cannot do almost any healing. We know most who get blessing don't get healed, so maybe you should argue that priesthood blessing works sometimes, and God not wanting to allow proof of his existence is also throwing out the same % of heals to the rest of the community. How about those mental gymnastics.

Sorry to say it, but you have simply come up with yet another version of your story, fresh from your fertile imagination - one in which you again simply state that the things you choose to believe in are beyond human understanding and so require faith, while conveniently neglecting to mention or address overwhelming physical evidence that is contrary to everything you claim. Why in the world would anyone believe this particular fantastical story over the thousands of other creation myths and their associated fantastical stories that humankind has come up with over the millennia? I can see that this discussion is only serving to make you dig deeper into your unfounded beliefs to try to come up with something even remotely rational - and so far you have failed.

That's only two. I ignored you for years Mental. That's a fact. The first time I ever criticized you was on an Adam God thread where I said you were spouting BS and you had a hissy fit. It would be nice if you could tell the truth. But that's hard for Mormon Apologists.

Then there is this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40206&start=252

And yeah, I participated in this one, but these are NOT my comments (or Lemmies):

I figured you had more integrity than to say something like that.

Disingenuous is MG's whole MO. Gymnastics doesn't allow for integrity, only constant motion around an axis of nothing.

That's a quite different and much more interesting question than the one just raised by MG, which is basically a move from lesson 2, level 1, of the Mopologist unarmed combat course.

Did you read--comprehend--what Gadianton pointed out?

MG, as soon as you introduced the word "hedging" it opened a can of worms since "hedging" is so clearly what Mopologetics is all about, and it's a dead hit for your case study of LDS leaders who appeal to their own fallibility in order to hedge their bets of otherwise infallibility.

In other words, you're constructing a test that's nearly perfectly insulated from failing. Do you realize how moronic this is?

Do you not grow weary of trying to defend this nonsense while, at the same time, trying to convince folks that you are a reasonable and rational individual?

As I have pointed out before, repeated successes on this board in refuting mainstream apologist claims with evidence and argument has left us only with those TBM posters who carry a mental Teflon coating enabling facts incompatible with their beliefs to slide off them without leaving any trace.

MG's views on religion are also contrary (and in many aspects diametrically opposed) to well established science. In fact, his stated belief (or hope at least) that science and religion may someday be in harmony reflects a poor understanding of both religion and science, and especially of science. MG's expressed attitude when it comes to claiming an acceptance of science, reason and rationality is exactly analogous to that of the convert who claims to be a Mormon while continuing to smoke, drink and chase women.

I grow weary of your lies.

[_Lemmie]

Let's go ahead and look at this first thread/conversation you linked to. If we go to:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37071&p=870146

the comment from Themis will be found. If you read through the WHOLE PAGE I think you will find that your concluding statement in your most recent post is inaccurate...to put it kindly.

ok. I'm willing to doublecheck. I went back and looked at the page. So did grindael, I see, and he has posted a number of other entries from that page that are similar to Themis' post. Obfuscate all you want, MG, 'to put it kindly,' an objective reading of the page supports my final sentence,

Your reputation here has absolutely NOTHING to do with your religious beliefs and everything to do with your penchant for stunts like the lies above.

So many people have told you this.

maybe a different approach would work, how about looking at other Mormon posters here? The CCC is Mormon, but his posts are well-respected and considered trustworthy and honest. I may not agree with his choice of religion, but he is honest and never disingenuous when he states his opinions and arguments. Until late last year, Kishkumen identified as Mormon (If I recall correctly) but no one ever argued he was disingenuous or dishonest in his postings.

There are others also, at varying levels of belief/involvement. For you to continue to assert that the issues people have with your posting style is a function of your religion and that it is some sort of backlash against your beliefs is an insult to those posters, and indeed, to the entire discussion format here.

[_Lemmie]

Question to self: why am I, a sixty-year old+ man playing on this playground with this kid?

Time for some real genuflection.

Are we done yet, grindael?

So what do you want, MG? to be able to post and have no one offer a dissenting opinion?

Early on in my posting time here, I made some casual post about psychology and, If I recall correctly, it was EAllusion who called me to task for some inconsistencies. I took his comments to heart, did considerable research into the topic, learned a lot, and then re-posted. I didn't consider it a personal challenge, nor did I assume he did it because I am (insert whatever ad hom excuse here), I considered it an academic challenge, and I appreciated EA's input tremendously.

I don't understand your pining, of late, for the imaginary good ol' days where one could, at least in your memory, ramble on and on about specific topics and concepts, and never be challenged. What an intellectually barren state that would be!

by the way, as evidenced in the ONE link that was at the top of your list we can see that it is important to look at full context. To simply say someone is "lying" from cherry picking is a bit disingenuous.

wow. You really need to read better, or pay more attention, or something.

I specifically said you were lying with respect to your comment about how it was different before "grindael and Lemmie were here," I was noting that within the linked comments was evidence supporting my thesis about the timing.

Is comprehension a significant issue here? Because you've made a similar error a number of times recently. It really makes me doubt you're here for discussion but rather just to exercise your Mopologetic troll.

[_Lemmie]

Are you super glued to your own blathering?

ROTF, LM [flippin' behind]O.

[language adjusted to meet Terrestrial requirements.]