Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[Guest]

Just finished reading this entire thread... Whew...what a train wreck...frankly I'm some what gobsmacked by the direction this thread has taken...seems to be a whole lot of unsubstantiated claims being thrown around.

For the TL;DR Crowd this is my synopsis: It is alleged by Rosebud that she and John Dehlin had an emotional affair that did not involve, shock, sex...but she still used the term affair to describe their dalliance. She is claiming that she was a pawn in this alleged affair and was mentally manipulated by said John Dehlin under the pretense of entering a polygamist relationship. This entire matter she says in hindsight regrets but has moved on...but not really.

If my TL;DR synopsis is too long here an even more abbreviated synopsis... She Said /He said / She said The truth lays somewhere in the ethernet

I'm still processing all of these alleged accusations...

[Guest]

There are egotistical maniacs everywhere, inside and outside of Mormonism, they're very dangerous, and there's something about me that makes me vulnerable. My vulnerability is my problem, but to some extent, it comes from Mormonism. I've started to sort that out and I'm thankful that this last time I saw it quickly and started running for the fire escape almost immediately.... before this guy got me roped into his illegal recordings, etc. (seriously, same kind of egotistical crap without the Mormon miracle of forgiveness drama-or the non 13-yo dance interactions). My better discernment has helped.

I'm really pissed that all these transitioning Mormons, who I care about, run into John Dehlin first thing (and his female counterparts) and get sucked into a new set of problems that is a repeat of the trauma they're trying to escape. Over the last 5 years I've seen such positive development and a maturing of the post-Mo community. I'd like it to develop beyond its dependence on its charismatic leader. But I was also saying that in 2011, so it probably says more about me than anyone.

The thing is that I only want growth beyond that enough to push buttons on the system from here now. I've resigned all my positions. If I ever get back into any projects, it will be with one of the few solid, grounded leaders. They're harder to find because they're not screaming from mountaintops as often.

Maybe someone needs to put together a blueprint for not being deceived by the creeps in the transitioning Mormon landscape. Maybe that should be me, idk. I really only want to post on message boards occasionally and live the rest of my life now I guess.

I suppose all of this comes down to the fact that I want to be a thorn in John Dehlin's side until enough people do the hard work of protecting the vulnerable. But that's one of my idealistic crusades. I'm very angry about all the actions he takes that get in the way of helping the people he keeps announcing that he's helping. But there will always be egotistical maniacs with us so maybe all my poking is useless. Still, I think it's gotten the warning out.

Seriously, something was very wrong with me while I was trying to build the Open Stories Foundation. Maybe I just had no idea, yet, how cruel he could be and how impossible it would be for a board to really run that ship. While I saw some of his problems, I didn't comprehend the whole picture. Now I'm just frightened for new members of his communities

The church creates a dependent people, disappoints them, then abandons them to these jerks and very few seem to safely navigate the weeds. I certainly didn't. But what can the church do to protect people from John Dehlin besides what they've already done?

[_Rosebud]

And thanks for listening to me talk about myself again. Still, despite how often people repeat that criticism to Zing each other on message boards, isn't that pretty much what message boards are all about? People talking about themselves? (An observation ;) ).

[Guest]

There are egotistical maniacs everywhere, inside and outside of Mormonism, they're very dangerous, and there's something about me that makes me vulnerable. My vulnerability is my problem, but to some extent, it comes from Mormonism. I've started to sort that out and I'm thankful that this last time I saw it quickly and started running for the fire escape almost immediately.... before this guy got me roped into his illegal recordings, etc. (seriously, same kind of egotistical ____ without the Mormon miracle of forgiveness drama-or the non 13-yo dance interactions). My better discernment has helped.

I'm really pissed that all these transitioning Mormons, who I care about, run into John Dehlin first thing (and his female counterparts) and get sucked into a new set of problems that is a repeat of the trauma they're trying to escape. Over the last 5 years I've seen such positive development and a maturing of the post-Mo community. I'd like it to develop beyond its dependence on its charismatic leader. But I was also saying that in 2011, so it probably says more about me than anyone.

The thing is that I only want growth beyond that enough to push buttons on the system from here now. I've resigned all my positions. If I ever get back into any projects, it will be with one of the few solid, grounded leaders. They're harder to find because they're not screaming from mountaintops as often.

Maybe someone needs to put together a blueprint for not being deceived by the creeps in the transitioning Mormon landscape. Maybe that should be me, idk. I really only want to post on message boards occasionally and live the rest of my life now I guess.

I suppose all of this comes down to the fact that I want to be a thorn in John Dehlin's side until enough people do the hard work of protecting the vulnerable. But that's one of my idealistic crusades. I'm very angry about all the actions he takes that get in the way of helping the people he keeps announcing that he's helping. But there will always be egotistical maniacs with us so maybe all my poking is useless. Still, I think it's gotten the warning out.

Seriously, something was very wrong with me while I was trying to build the Open Stories Foundation. Maybe I just had no idea, yet, how cruel he could be and how impossible it would be for a board to really run that ship. While I saw some of his problems, I didn't comprehend the whole picture. Now I'm just frightened for new members of his communities

The church creates a dependent people, disappoints them, then abandons them to these jerks and very few seem to safely navigate the weeds. I certainly didn't. But what can the church do to protect people from John Dehlin besides what they've already done?

Thanks for sharing...that's a lot of credibility...my only question is you must have had feelings for John at one time (I'm assuming) unless your affair was strictly a one night stand kind of fling and a physical one...I can only imagine that once you had feeling for him...he must have really hurt you deeply and emotionally for this melodrama to have taken such a serious turn...because all I sense now it deep hatred.

[_cwald]

Rosebud.

I think you are making a lot of sense these last couple of posts. Much more rational and discernable and to the point in my opinion. And believable. This has not always been the case in these Dehlin threads where you more or less come across as mostly a "women scorned" because you wouldn't tell what actually happened and just threw out vague accusations of that led many of us to believe in some torrid sex affair where John Dehlin forced himself on you and illegal activity that would land John Dehlin in jail etc etc. That is not what I get from the last couple of posts and I appreciate you attempting to setting the record straight. I don't think many, if anyone here would disagree with your assessment of the manipulation and emotional turmult you described in these posts recently. I think most folks here at least, are very leary of the cult mentally that permeates the Open Stories Foundation

[_Rosebud]

Rosebud.

I think you are making a lot of sense these last couple of posts. Much more rational and discernable and to the point in my opinion. And believable. This has not always been the case in these Dehlin threads where you more or less come across as mostly a "women scorned" because you wouldn't tell what actually happened and just threw out vague accusations of that led many of us to believe in some torrid sex affair where John Dehlin forced himself on you and illegal activity that would land John Dehlin in jail etc etc. That is not what I get from the last couple of posts and I appreciate you attempting to setting the record straight. I don't think many, if anyone here would disagree with your assessment of the manipulation and emotional turmult you described in these posts recently. I think most folks here at least, are very leary of the cult mentally that permeates the Open Stories Foundation

Thank you cwald. I'm not really sure which old posts you mean or whether it was my language, different words, or different perceptions by readers at different times. I don't remember ever posting about landing John Dehlin in jail, or anything like that, as that doesn't make sense. Why would he go to jail?

I have posted different things here at different times to have a different affect on John Dehlin and that means that sometimes I am not making message board posts that mean for the posters here to be my audience as much as poking at the system, etc.

I do think that instead of characterizing past posts, or your interpretation of them in parts or as a whole, it would be useful to quote what I actually said at any one time and in context. Especially during those beginning threads, posters made all kinds of false assumptions about what I was saying and I didn't take time to correct false assumptions because I was busy doing my own thing. What I say is often different than how it is interpreted.

Thank you for your support. It is much nicer now that people believe me and aren't so defensive of John Dehlin. That was not an easy time to be posting here.

[_candygal]

Thanks Rosebud. It helps understanding when we can under certain circumstances put a name and face to your posts.

[_Lemmie]

http://[in real life link]

oh boy. Fell free to tell me to **** off, but, speaking as a woman with a BIC- tbm background who has gone through this process of extricating oneself from lds influences, may I say that going forward, you will want to have a professional footprint that can be taken seriously. It is nice, as candygal said, to get to know each other, but linking your in real life professional data with the type of posts you leave here does NOT help your professional image.

....there's something about me that makes me vulnerable. My vulnerability is my problem, but to some extent, it comes from Mormonism. I've started to sort that out...

Right. Since 2011, yes? Get it done. Sorry to be so abrupt, and I know it's not fair but you are not setting yourself up for a future where you are taken seriously as a professional woman if you continue to publicly wallow in this. I am totally sympathetic to the long period of time it takes to get over stuff like this, but think about your professional image and work on yourself in private, maybe in a therapist's office.

I'm really pissed that all these transitioning Mormons, who I care about, run into John Dehlin first thing (and his female counterparts) and get sucked into a new set of problems that is a repeat of the trauma they're trying to escape. Over the last 5 years I've seen such positive development and a maturing of the post-Mo community. I'd like it to develop beyond its dependence on its charismatic leader.

Come on. Again, I know you won't like this unsympathetic stance, but as a grown woman how professionally do you think you will be treated if you continue, for years and in public, to lament over the "power" a "charismatic leader" has had over you during your adult years? Plenty of women, post-mormon or not, find themselves enjoying a community with no need for a dependence on any sort of leader. That you define a community in terms like that is still that old Mormon way of thinking.

I've resigned all my positions. If I ever get back into any projects, it will be with one of the few solid, grounded leaders. They're harder to find because they're not screaming from mountaintops as often.

Or, radical idea, be your own solid, grounded leader. I understand the Mormon background in this process, but professionally, you just come across as never getting over the need to keep looking for a man to pull your life together for you. You're an adult. Pull your own life together!

Maybe someone needs to put together a blueprint for not being deceived by the creeps in the transitioning Mormon landscape.

There are thousands. You don't need one just for Mormon transitioning because although it feels so unique to you, it's really not a unique problem at all. See a psychiatrist or therapist and discuss the various options you have for learning how to finish growing up.

Now I'm just frightened for new members of his communities....

The church creates a dependent people, disappoints them, then abandons them to these jerks and very few seem to safely navigate the weeds. I certainly didn't. But what can the church do to protect people from John Dehlin besides what they've already done?

Again, no offense, but we are talking about adults, right? Not helpless children. I empathize because I went through all of this myself, but honestly, you have to do the work yourself. No one is obligated to protect you from life.

I know I sound harsh, but it's still not a clear sailing path for professional women to be taken seriously. I went through my similar battle while attending graduate school in Manhattan. Talk about out of the frying pan into the fire. You just have to grit your teeth and grow the hell up, as fast as you can, all the while behaving as professionally as possible.

And last, you have to present yourself in the best light you can. It's not fair, I know, but there are still plenty of people who will discriminate based on gender. You can't fix each one, or run out of the room crying every time, or vow revenge online in traceable posts or you will never get any work done. You just have to personally hold yourself to the highest standard you can, and then ignore the rest. Assume virtually no one in the professional world wants to hear you discuss your gender-related vulnerabilities, and just let them know you can do the job. Period. Whatever your gender.

I have posted different things here at different times to have a different affect on John Dehlin

Really? He still has that much power over you that you feel you need to demonstrate publicly that you have an effect on him?

Anyway, just consider this post my approach to how to have a professional life, as a woman, after growing up in what I consider to have been a cult-like environment. I'm not trying to tell you how I want you to be, as you mentioned in a recent post to me, it's just irritating to see a woman go on and on like this so I am sharing how the process worked for me.

[_Dr. Shades]

Both are kind of assholes. Two huge egos that don't understand how little they mattered to the transitioning out of Mormonism movement. This message board alone was more vital than those two crazy goons.

Thanks. :-) And yet THEY are the ones making 90K per year or getting free laptop computers, whereas I'm sitting here raking in precisely $0. :-(

I haven't read every post in this thread, but here is where Kate Kelly criticized Dehlin (with a screenshot of her Facebook post):

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _on_blast/

Here are my two favorite comments from that thread:

• Gonna end this by saying she needs to do a Go fund me for a new pair of glasses.
• Since KK demands pretend priesthood powers, perhaps she'd also be satisfied with pretend donations for female podcasters.

[_cwald]

Especially during those beginning threads, posters made all kinds of false assumptions about what I was saying and I didn't take time to correct false assumptions because I was busy doing my own thing. What I say is often different than how it is interpreted.

Right, that is what I'm saying and much if it was your own fault, which is why I'm pointing out the differences between your last couple of posts where you have been more clear, succinct etc. Example...stating plainly that the affair was "not sexual and was consensual." Those are the kind of details you left out in some of those earlier threads where you talk about rape etc, and even in the first half of this one. Those are kind of important details.

You've spent two years saying you have a lawyer and documents etc insinuating that you could blow the lid on John Dehlin and Open Stories Foundation, and now you admit John Dehlin has done nothing that would land him in jail. Kind of important part of the conversation.

Anyway. I think you have done a better job explaining your case and describing the issues you have with John Dehlin in the last couple pages of this thread and I understand the frustration and warnings better now.