As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

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_sock puppet
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _sock puppet »

Why do you think there needs to be meaning to life? Did religion first create that hole in your psyche and then fill it, so now it feels empty that god's been booted from your beliefs?

Two haunting quotes from Shakespeare's Hamlet come to mind. First, when Claudius asks where Polonius is, Hamlet answers, "At dinner". Claudius asks where Polonius is dining. Hamlet explains
Not where he eats, but where he is eaten. A certain convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your worm is your only emperor for diet. We fat all creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots. Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service—two dishes, but to one table. That’s the end.
Not very noble or meaningful. (The quote is meaningful; life, not so much.)

Later, the skull from the gravedigger, Hamlet again...
Let me see. Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy. He hath borne me on his back a thousand times, and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know not how oft. —Where be your gibes now? Your gambols? Your songs? Your flashes of merriment that were wont to set the table on a roar? Not one now to mock your own grinning? Quite chapfallen?
Where indeed, but in the memories of a generation or two.

Then, "All we are is dust in the wind." Kansas, 1977. (Probably one of those rock music lyrics designed to drive the kids to have sex--just ask GA emeritus Gene Cook!)

I don't see why there needs to be 'meaning of life'. Wrapping up mortality, morality and the 'meaning of life' all in one, "live and let live".
_RockSlider
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _RockSlider »

aussieguy55,

I'm 60 this coming August, post 5 years from being diagnosed with rectal cancer. What they (surgeons) left me with they will gladly drug the hell out of me for the "best quality of life" they can offer. I choose the pain instead. Still feeling obligated to support my wife of 36 years with the best I can leave her with I continue working. Mostly numb and exhausted from continual lack of sleep.

Like you I worry about my three adult children and seven grandchildren. I think my generation got the best of America and this life. I've done so many things in this life. I'm happy with my experiences in it, including the cancer, I've had the full ride, the bonus round, the full experience.

God? I doubt it now but have no fear of death, euthanasia should be an option. Either way with God, I gave it my all. Right now, I live for my wife, children and grandchildren. I'd like some more time to have a chance to continue to influence my grandchildren more.
_Choyo Chagas
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _Choyo Chagas »

sock puppet wrote: Shakespeare's Hamlet come to mind.

thank you
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968.
Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
_huckelberry
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _huckelberry »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wadEuuRc_Zw

A good discussion about why leaving Mormonism does not supply an escape from the meaning of life.

///////

I should perhaps clarify, the link is just an extra. My point was my comment. Life has its own meaning. Adding stuff like life after life and Mormon cosmology is just adding baggage to the meaning or perhaps the puzzles as to its meaning.

I am not unhappy that I do not know all the meaning to life.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Sanctorian
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _Sanctorian »

The meaning of life? Well, my parents had sex and I'm the byproduct. Besides that, I see no real reason I'm here. That makes the meaning of life whatever I want it to be.

I choose to be a good parent, a good citizen, and a good friend. That's rewarding enough for me.

Death? Not too worried about it except I hope it's not a plane crash, fire or drowning. I actually find more peace thinking there is no afterlife. The thought of 'eternity' sounds boring as hell. I'd rather the lights shut off and cease to exist.

If on my tombstone they put 'pleasant to be around', I'd consider my life a success.
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_honorentheos
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _honorentheos »

These are just my thoughts, and hardly what passes for a anything meaningful. I don't know if it even translates when I write it down but we'll see I guess. I was one of those LDS who bought the idea that God was not just giving wisdom to a few select Semitic peoples but had truth that was in various stages of corruption that could probably be found in all religions. Even as a TBM, for example, I was interested in stories in Buddhism that I saw as paralleling similar views in the Gospels. I would sometimes sneak a story out of Zen Flesh, Zen Bones into a lesson and they seemed generally well received.

So when I ultimately began moving away from belief the Book of Mormon was historical, Joseph Smith was a prophet and all that came with it, my first attempts at finding meaning involved looking more into the places that seemed most fertile from this previous effort. But in almost every case there came a point when what seemed appealing and "real" required some metaphysical belief that was both fundamental to the system and blatantly ludicrous. Buddhism required karma and belief in reincarnation. Unitarian Universalist Christianity still required one not look too historically at the Bible. Reform Judaism was a birth rite really and one would always be an interloper into a cultural identity one didn't actually inherit. Hinduism, Shinto, etc., etc. - gods and beliefs that underlay the ideas were essential to the systems. Even stoicism requires some form of metaphysical foundation I can't buy into.

But what I did come away with was the sense that the questions, and some of the answers, transcended culture and time.

Ultimately I feel I've come to a few simple conclusions. Meaning is self-generated. And 100 years from now whatever that meaning was I found for myself will be forgotten. But I don't care because I won't be aware of that loss of meaning. It's impermanence is tied to the impermanence of my own identity. Also, life ought to be well-lived but what that means is transitory depending on circumstance and often on things out of my control. Regardless, it ought to include friends, family, and the appreciation of just how impermanent life really appears to be. Third, doing new things that challenge me is meaningful because it both makes me return to the beginner's mind, and it is stimulating to learn to do something I couldn't do before and still can't do well but want to get better at it. In some ways, I spend a lot of time now working on hobbies just to refresh myself. I find intentional routine (as opposed to the passively acquired routine of a rut) gives life a good meter for the music of the day to play out to, and oddly allows for the breaking of the routine with meaning to be all the more stimulating.

All of that creates a sort of ethical requirement, too. To have friends and family relationships that benefit all, one has to be honest and willing to help out among other things. Life will be crap often and arbitrarily. I find mediation helps to quiet the tough times and even out the peaks as well. It's important to be there for people when crap goes on for them, too. Because often no one else will. Most people's lives are too complicated to make assumptions about what got them to where they ended up, so if I can lend a hand or give something away that helps, I try to do so. I've been given a lot of crap for giving money to homeless people over the years but I can never shake the sense that had my life taken a few minor twists early on it could be me in their shoes. So, while superstitious and crazy in it's own way, I try to follow the outlines of the golden rule.

What I haven't figure out: Is there a balance between quality of life and quantity of life? Because both seem better in certain circumstances. For example, work/life balance is a imperfect thing in my life right now. I enjoy my profession so I don't ever feel like work is drudgery. But I feel neglectful or out of balance when I try to make up for when I need to really lean into work by focusing on quality time out of the office. This is where I right now am enforcing routine as much as possible because when I don't life creates it's own routine.

Second, I miss my tribe. I felt it most in the military with a particular unit. I plan on reading Sebastian Junger's book on it soon, mainly because the subject resonates with me. https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming ... 1455566381
I have not figured out how to capture the sense of belonging like that, but I get the sense that is a very very common feeling. Anyone figures that one out, I'm all ears.

Last, I am constantly certain that life is all we get, and have yet to figure out how to quench the feeling that there is too much that I want to know about, to engage in and never will scratch the surface. This may have been part of my Mormon inheritance where part of the appeal of eternity was the promise there would always be more time, or whatever constitutes change, in the eternities.

There's certainly more, but those are the ones that quickly came to mind.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

honorentheos wrote:Second, I miss my tribe. I felt it most in the military with a particular unit.

...

I have not figured out how to capture the sense of belonging like that, but I get the sense that is a very very common feeling. Anyone figures that one out, I'm all ears.


I miss it, too. I was assigned to USASOC for a good bit. When I left the unit I really, really struggled with a loss of purpose, friendships, solid acquaintances, and an interesting life. I've come to think that moments and circumstances like that, like what you felt, are often forced upon you rather than crafted. They're happy coincidences that we should feel glad to have been a part of.

I get a similar, albeit very watered down feeling, by participating on a forum like this. You get to know various personalities, each one bringing a sense of character to the interaction. Some are well-spoken and thoughtful. Some are insane. Some are assholes. Some are minimalists. Some are a mishmash of personalities. Nevertheless it's a community to a degree much like it was in the military minus the mandatory training and deployments. Heh.

Sanctorian wrote:I actually find more peace thinking there is no afterlife. The thought of 'eternity' sounds boring as hell. I'd rather the lights shut off and cease to exist.


I'm kind of in the same boat. At some point everything loses it appeal. Let's say you were immortal and you could be 'Q' from Star Trek. Go anywhere. Do anything. The universe was your oyster. I think at some point you'd be like the continuum and just check out, you know, go to sleep or put yourself into rest mode. Whatever. That might be a bad example because Q was a plot device... I think my point is understood, though.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Ceeboo
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _Ceeboo »

Great thread! :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo
_candygal
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _candygal »

I am maybe one of few ex Mormons who still believes in life after death. Perhaps it is something that is a must for me to wake to each day and the only hope that I sustain from a former Mormon life. It has been a gift to accept this without the contract and the commitment of sealings and spiritual promises. My life has only changed to a more of common sense approach to my children, family and community. I give of myself as responsibility..and love without obligation or expectations of blessings. I believe still there is a God..but not the one I grew up with. I don't fit Him to be compromising my mistakes..but truly forgiven and loved evenso.
_Black Moclips
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Re: As an ex-Mormon what is the meaning of life for you now

Post by _Black Moclips »

1) I don't know what to think about God. It was such a one sided relationship (I feel) during my life in the church. Me praying and asking for answers, only to be met with silence. It forced me to face the reality that there just might not be anything there. Or maybe what we consider God isn't what we think it is. I see the world moving for good and bad without any divine involvement. If there is a divine all powerful being out there, he/she/it doesn't seem to be generally concerned with what humans are doing on a global scale.

However, maybe its not about that. What if there is life after death, but no capital G god out there directing everything? Maybe there is a circle of spiritual life we are a part of that doesn't require someone be in charge, it just is. Maybe we move through lifetimes over and over again, always learning, always experiencing and growing.

Maybe its just the latent effects of a lifetime of Mormonism, but I feel like there is something to this experience of life.

2) I think you can be "good" without God. People do it all the time because acting with love and charity is its own reward. You feel good doing it. In fact, I sometimes wonder if that kind of love/service is the most genuine, because you know the person isn't doing it out of some sense of duty or eternal reward.

3) Fear of death? Not really. More the manner of it than anything. I'm also concerned about not being here for my wife and kids - as the sole bread winner, they need me. On the other hand, I'm sort of excited to see what really happens - It will either be lights out and I disappear into oblivion or a big giant "Ah Ha!" moment.
“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”
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