On audits, elections and public trust

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

“Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. urged voters to request an absentee or mail ballot in robocalls this week.

"Voting absentee is a safe and secure way to guarantee your voice is heard," Trump Jr. said”

“Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., who delivered a keynote speech during the Republican convention, said in an interview with The Today Show that he was "very confident that we will have fair elections throughout this country."

"I'll tell you how I feel about it, and what I think most Americans believe, that this process of mail-in ballots will prove to work out just fine," Scott said. "I'm going to have confidence that all the moving pieces will actually fit together and we'll have a very strong, integrity-driven, character-driven election."”

What did the FBI say when Trump tweeted this out? “MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND OTHERS," tweeted Trump in June. "IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!"”

“During an election security briefing Wednesday, FBI officials made what should have been an unremarkable statement: They've seen no evidence of any foreign plot to counterfeit or forge mail ballots.”

“The FBI, which is formally part of the Justice Department, said Wednesday that it has "no information about any nation state" engaging in any effort to undermine any aspect of mail voting and also noted how difficult any coordinated fraud scheme involving mail ballots would be to pull off because of the decentralized nature of U.S. elections and the numerous safeguards that are in place.”

“Postmaster General Louis DeJoy publicly broke with President Donald Trump in endorsing mail-in voting as safe and secure, stating that the US Postal Service has the capacity to process mail ballots.

"I want to assure this committee that the Postal Service is fully capable and committed to delivering election mail securely and on time," DeJoy said in his opening statement. "That sacred duty is my number one priority between now and Election Day."”

And for whatever reason it seems Mayan Elephant only recently lost faith in mail-in voting? The US has been at it for a very long time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_ ... ted_States

- Doc

[Icarus]

I pointed out Blue Anon. Yes. It is basically a term for cabal of ideologues that believe in hoaxes and conspiracies, like unfounded Russian collusion.

Nuff' said.

Moron.

[Mayan Elephant]

Oh gosh Doc. You sure can use ctrl+f, ctrl+c and ctrl+v. Cool stuff.

My decision is based on my experience and my standards for auditing of the data and the process. I weigh standing followed by laches with a high factor and the location of a printing press at zero.


I learned from 2020 elections that my concerns are valid and I opt out. By the way, I don’t watch professional wrestling either. I also do not want to go on a cruise. You are free to consume as you see fit.

Feel free to vote.

[Gadianton]

ME, when you say "but not accurate in its basis", did you mean that I isolated one variable, the "fraud", specifically fraud due to absentee ballots, and the picture for you involves other factors; courts, lack of audits, slow oversight processes etc.. or did you mean something else?

[Mayan Elephant]

ME, when you say "but not accurate in its basis", did you mean that I isolated one variable, the "fraud", specifically fraud due to absentee ballots, and the picture for you involves other factors; courts, lack of audits, slow oversight processes etc.. or did you mean something else?

Your interpretation is correct.

My personal decisions, or conclusions, are not based on fraud. That specific isolation terminates the logic for me. I tried to address your question by making the distinction and using some factors that are relevant to me.

[Chap]

That specific isolation terminates the logic for me.

I am sorry. I know a number of languages, both ancient and modern, to varying degrees, and I have a scientific and mathematical training.

But I still need someone to explain to me what that sentence might (as they say) 'even mean'.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well. A Trump “voting integrity commission” didn’t find widespread voter fraud in 2017, which was formed based on his allegations that between 3-5 million votes were cast illegally. Further, this is what happens when Republicans try to create a fraud fantasy out of whole cloth:

http://paceidocs.sosonline.org/

My ability to participate in the work of the commission, inexplicably, was completely shut off. I was walled off from any deliberations about what the commission would examine, who we would talk to, how the work product would be formed—or even when we would be meeting. When I pointedly asked questions along these lines, my inquiries were met with complete silence.

- Sen. Dunlap

On that site is enough investigative work for ME to pour over in order to figure out allegations of widespread voting fraud is nonsense. Whatever the case may be states and localities (like Utah, for example) have electronic ballot tracking for vote by mail. Here's one example:

https://multco.us/trackyourballot

The amount of vote stealing that would have to occur to sway an election would be massive, and would not go unnoticed by authorities. It's incredibly safe.

I think ME is just upset his guy didn’t win the Presidential election, despite the GOP picking up down ballot seats.

- Doc

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

My decision is based on my experience and my standards for auditing of the data and the process. I weigh standing followed by laches with a high factor and the location of a printing press at zero.

What does that even mean? We can’t just use the courts to tie up elections indefinitely.

Laches has particular force in the context of election challenges. Indeed, laches often bars equitable relief in actions brought by tardy plaintiffs prior to the relevant election. See Navarro v. Neal, 904 F. Supp. 2d 812, 816-817 (N.D. Ill. 2012) (collecting cases); see also Stein v. Boockvar, Civ. No. 16-6287, 2020 WL 2063470, at *19 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 29, 2020). And for good reason. Plaintiffs who sleep on their rights only to bring last-minute challenges create "a situation in which any remedial order would throw the state's preparations for the election into turmoil." Nader v. Keith, 385 F.3d 729, 736 (7th Cir. 2004). By strictly applying laches in the election setting, courts properly encourage parties to litigate their claims at the earliest possible time, resulting in the least disruption to the election and, ultimately, the voters. See Richard L. Hasen, Beyond the Margin of Litigation: Reforming U.S. Election Administration to Avoid Electoral Meltdown, 62 Wash. & Lee L. Rev. 937, 998 (2005) ("Courts should see it as in the public interest in election law cases to aggressively apply laches so as to prevent litigants from securing options over election administration problems.").

So, on the one hand we have GOP’ers, prominent GOP Senators, the President himself (in ref to Florida), the President’s son, Republican governors, Republican election commissioners, and tens of millions of Republicans voting by mail, who know and understand the system is safe and secure voting by mail, and we have ME buying into the conspiratorial and unproven allegations by Trumpist GOP’ers opting out of voting because he’s totes not a conspiracist.

We’re the conspirators, apparently. In fact, I hadn’t even heard of Blue Anon until this thread happened.

Anyway. This is one of the weirder right-wing meltdowns I’ve witnessed on this board. ME, there was no need to come out swinging. You can just make your argument, and then set about educating us. Any proof that supports your position is welcome, and ought to be debated in order to figure out what’s what.

- Doc

[Mayan Elephant]

My issue is that standing prevents evidentiary hearings and then laches says it is too late.

It is not a conspiracy to say that is the case. I am just not interested in playing along. I do not find that pattern acceptable.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

My issue is that standing prevents evidentiary hearings ...

That’s BS. They needed to bring a SPECIFIC allegation and then provide PROOF of the said allegation. The, what, 60? cases that were brought to various courts and then dismissed had no standing because they brought nonsensical broad allegations that the court rightly dismissed. Specific. Proof. Then they would’ve had standing. Anyway:

https://mobile.Twitter.com/NASEDorg/sta ... SKBN2AF1G1

You should read that.

- Doc