Alpha & Omega: A Book of Mormon anachronistic blooper

[_Runtu]

At that time, 33 AD, "Timothy" was no more English than Alpha & Omega was. Mormon apologetics simply has no rational answer. The Nephites couldn't have known those words. Thus we see, Timothy in 3 Nephi really is a fictional character made up by Joseph Smith who unknowingly introduced anachronistic words into his novel.

Smith was red handed.

My point was that some apologists want it both ways: they want to dismiss Alpha and Omega and Timothy as "English" but then turn around and say words like "sheum" are evidence of antiquity.

[_Shulem]

My point was that some apologists want it both ways

Mormon apologists will go any way in order to introduce the possibility of a plausible explanation which often is nothing more than a ridiculous excuse. Never mind consistency or the odds. For them, it's simply a matter of coming up with a "what if" scenario for every point of contention and concentrating on trying to find some kind of crack or blemish in the critic's argument which is usually based on sound reason, logic, and clear cut scientific facts.

Everyone will agree that there wasn't a Timothy in Lehi's expedition and Greek was not in their vocabulary. So, the apologist is left to dream up all kinds of plausible ideas on how the name Timothy showed up among the Nephites 600 years later. It simply becomes a matter of "what if this" or "what if that". Looking for the mysterious needle in the haystack is a conundrum for the LDS apologist. The critic doesn't care about that needle. The critic only cares about the known and proven facts.

Hardened apologists, such as zerinus, will simply say that the world doesn't know everything, hence his plausible excuse about Anubis in Facsimile No. 3 being a slave. Also, there really is a king's name in the writing but Egyptologists just haven't figured out how to read a particular slant on the Egyptian language.

[_zerinus]

Sure, those languages may have words that have entered into the English language in some form or another. I get that. But one thing is for sure, the Nephites in 33AD did not know Greek and the Greek alphabet from Mormon Jesus's lips would have been gobbledygook.

Your argument is simply illogical and self-cotradictory. If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you. Nobody can.

[_JLHPROF]

Alpha and Omega - as dictated by Joseph Smith.
Has no bearing on what language was written on the plates. The translation of the plates is not claimed to be a linguistic endeavor.
If you believe the Book of Mormon from God (which we know you don't) then it isn't that complicated to figure out that whatever words were used on the plates meant the same thing as Alpha and Omega.

It was an English translation, so why not use beginning and end and leave it at that?
Why introduce Greek terms for an English translation of plates that contained no Greek?

A better question would be why not use "A" and "Z".
I'm no linguist and don't pretend to be. But a quick google of "Alpha and Omega" shows equivalents exist in languages other than greek.

Wikipedia says that
The Qur'an gives al'Awwal (الأول), meaning "The First" and al'Akhir (الآخر), meaning "The Last" as two of the names of God
AND
In Rabbinic literature, the word emet (אמת meaning "truth"), one of the names of God in Judaism, has been interpreted as consisting of the first, middle, and final letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

So Joseph said "Alpha and Omega" instead of updating to the current English usage of "A and Z". The symbolism is identical.

It has no bearing on what was on the plates. Whatever language it was translated to first letter symbol/last letter symbol, beginning and end.

[_Shulem]

Sure, those languages may have words that have entered into the English language in some form or another. I get that. But one thing is for sure, the Nephites in 33AD did not know Greek and the Greek alphabet from Mormon Jesus's lips would have been gobbledygook.

Your argument is simply illogical and self-cotradictory. If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you. Nobody can.

What you really mean is, you can't help yourself with a logical explanation for why Mormon Jesus was speaking Greek to the Nephites. More also, you've not even acknowledged the part about Joseph & Oliver using "senine" instead of farthing. Clearly, Joseph & Oliver were trying to keep up with a consistent storyline but they tripped on the Greek.

Mormonism constantly contradicts itself. It's polygamy one moment and no polygamy the next. Revelations of Mormonism contradicting revelations of Mormonism -- one big ugly mess as past prophets have been thrown under the bus. Mormonism today is a different cult them it was when it was organized and led by the first batch of Presidents. The religion has mutated into what it is today -- boring and useless.

And, really, I don't need your "help", zerinus. I already know your church is false. I know it absolutely. There is nothing you could say or do to change my mind and make me believe in lies.

PS. There is no king's name in Facsimile No. 3. Joseph Smith lied and made that up. And, those boys therein are really girls. Or does that not matter to you?

[_Shulem]

A better question would be why not use "A" and "Z".
I'm no linguist and don't pretend to be. But a quick google of "Alpha and Omega" shows equivalents exist in languages other than greek.

Wikipedia says that
The Qur'an gives al'Awwal (الأول), meaning "The First" and al'Akhir (الآخر), meaning "The Last" as two of the names of God
AND
In Rabbinic literature, the word emet (אמת meaning "truth"), one of the names of God in Judaism, has been interpreted as consisting of the first, middle, and final letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

So Joseph said "Alpha and Omega" instead of updating to the current English usage of "A and Z". The symbolism is identical.

It has no bearing on what was on the plates. Whatever language it was translated to first letter symbol/last letter symbol, beginning and end.

You will recall that Moroni claimed the Hebrew had been altered and that no one knew their language. The Nephite version was not genuine Hebrew just as the "reformed Egyptian" (as we have seen from the LDS Broadside advertisement) are not conventional Egyptian characters in the ordinary sense. Thus, the Nephite-Hebrew and Nephite-Egyptian were mutations and who can say whether there was even an alphabet, per se, having a first and last letter. It's all conjecture!

Really though, bottom line, Mormon Jesus appeared to the Nephites and should have spoken to them in a manner by which they could understand things. No need to mention Greek letters. No need for Joseph Smith to include Greek letters in his translation. Let's just stick to the facts and be accurate, please. And accuracy is one thing we NEVER get in Mormon translations whether it be the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham. Just look at the accuracy of the translations of Facsimile No. 3! Doesn't that reflect on the accuracy of the Book of Mormon? I think it does. They both suck.

[_Shulem]

It has no bearing on what was on the plates. Whatever language it was translated to first letter symbol/last letter symbol, beginning and end.

So what do YOU think was on the plates when Jesus gave his money speech about getting out of hell? Senine or farthing?

[ ] Senine was etched in gold
[ ] Farthing was etched in gold

[_Shulem]

It has no bearing on what was on the plates. Whatever language it was translated to first letter symbol/last letter symbol, beginning and end.

So what do YOU think was on the plates when Jesus gave his money speech about getting out of hell? Senine or farthing?

[ ] Senine was etched in gold
[ ] Farthing was etched in gold

[x] Senine was etched in gold

That sounds reasonable. The Nephite coinage system contained the senine and surely Mormon Jesus knew that money talks. So, he must have said "senine" and "senine" must have been written in gold. That makes sense. It's reasonable.

But then Jesus also talks about walking and going the distance. Surely, the Nephites had a measurement for distance just as they did for measures of grain and coins.

But now we get a Roman mile! What's up with the Roman? Why is Jesus speaking Roman and Joseph & Oliver translating for Roman?

3 Nephi 12:41
And whosoever shall compel thee to ago a mile, go with him twain.

Why, "mile"?

[_Shulem]

Your argument is simply illogical and self-cotradictory. If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you. Nobody can.

And your argument is that Mormon Jesus told the Nephites to go walk 2 Roman miles.

Or, did Joe & Oliver goof again in writing their story taken from the KJV?

Just close your eye, zerinus, cover your ears, and repeat after me: I know the church is true.

[_zerinus]

Your argument is simply illogical and self-cotradictory. If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you. Nobody can.

What you really mean is, you can't help yourself with a logical explanation for why Mormon Jesus was speaking Greek to the Nephites. More also, you've not even acknowledged the part about Joseph & Oliver using "senine" instead of farthing. Clearly, Joseph & Oliver were trying to keep up with a consistent storyline but they tripped on the Greek.

Mormonism constantly contradicts itself. It's polygamy one moment and no polygamy the next. Revelations of Mormonism contradicting revelations of Mormonism -- one big ugly mess as past prophets have been thrown under the bus. Mormonism today is a different cult them it was when it was organized and led by the first batch of Presidents. The religion has mutated into what it is today -- boring and useless.

And, really, I don't need your "help", zerinus. I already know your church is false. I know it absolutely. There is nothing you could say or do to change my mind and make me believe in lies.

PS. There is no king's name in Facsimile No. 3. Joseph Smith lied and made that up. And, those boys therein are really girls. Or does that not matter to you?

You are talking a whole bunch of discordant, incoherent, irrelevant, illogical nonsense. You are confused, and don't know what you are taking about.