Fantasy Mormon Church

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_Kishkumen
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Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

I am devoting this thread to my fantasy Mormon Church, the Mormon Church I wished existed but does not and could not, at least as a future of the LDS Church. Before I get started laying out my Fantasy Mormon Church, I want to get a few things out of the way:

1. I enjoyed growing up Mormon. It had some big downsides, of course, but there were a lot of things about the experience that I really enjoyed. There are times when I wish there was something like my Fantasy Mormon Church for me to attend. I think that is partly because I like going to church, but I don't really want to go to another denomination's church, and I don't want to go to the LDS Church as long as it insists on clinging to many of the things I find objectionable.

2. When I set out a principle or practice of my Fantasy Mormon Church, I will do my best to explain why it is that I think my version of things is feasible and better than what the LDS Church currently does.

3. I don't expect others to find this a worthwhile project. Comment as you like; I may or may not take up whatever argument you raise. I will respond to the degree that I think your comments are constructive. It's not that I have no tolerance or sympathy for your disagreement. I just don't have the time and energy to address all arguments.

So, here goes nothin'!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

Joseph Smith

In my Fantasy Mormon Church, Joseph Smith will no longer utterly dominate the story of the Restoration. The story of the Restoration will be told in its broader historical context, and the many players who made important contributions to the story will be returned to their rightful places in the history. LDS Mormons worship at the altar of the Post-Martyrdom myth of Joseph Smith, in which Joseph Smith is, for all intents and purposes, a deity. In my Fantasy Mormon Church, Joseph Smith will be among the very human founders of Mormonism, who is revered for his positive contributions, but whose flaws and mistakes will be acknowledged honestly.

In my Fantasy Mormon Church, human beings do not receive worship. And, once a more balanced history of the Restoration emerges, there will no longer be a need to see Mormonism as entirely the religion of Joseph Smith. Mormonism came together in a particular environment in the interactions of particular people, and a proper understanding of all of those factors results in Joseph Smith not being the sole founding hero of the new faith.

Displacing Joseph Smith from his pedestal and embracing a more balanced history means that no one gets in trouble for criticizing or disagreeing with Joseph Smith. There will be no need to defend the indefensible. In my Fantasy Mormon Church we can see the cult leader aspects of Joseph Smith, and the charlatanry. What is important to the Fantasy Mormon Church is not Joseph the man, but the good ideas that came together in the historical interactions that produced Mormonism.

A crucial part of understanding the early Mormons is understanding honestly the historical events, ideas, social interactions, and practices that caused them to come together, form a new church, and create and then embrace the ideas they forged into a new religion. This is not because the Fantasy Mormon Church is the reconstruction of an ancient sepulcher. It is because any group that claims to build on a tradition needs to understand and work within that tradition on its own terms.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_consiglieri
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Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _consiglieri »

One of the things I would like to put in my Mormon Fantasy Church would be adult programs that are on a par with the youth programs.

It seemed like things were very fun as a youth, and lots of church time and resources went into youth activities, but as soon as I got a little older and became a Young Adult, things went downhill rapidly.

Then when I got married, church programs seemed to evaporate completely.

Great idea for a thread by the way!
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Kishkumen
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Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

Theology

One of the reasons I did not join the Community of Christ was because the Community of Christ adopted the doctrine of the Trinity. I have no problem with the Trinity per se. If you like the Trinity, join an organization that embraces the Trinity. The way I see things, however, is that Mormonism has always been heterodox. So, no matter what you do with theology in a Fantasy Mormon Church, it should embrace that traditional heterodoxy, not settle on one orthodoxy.

So, in my Fantasy Mormon Church, there is room for speculation on theology, and all kinds of theological ideas will be discussed. My Fantasy Mormon Church will have Sunday School sessions that really dig into the historical evidence of the early Mormons' different theological ideas as expressed in the Book of Mormon and other scriptures, the hymns, the journals, etc. Since we cannot know which theology is the "true" one, it makes little sense to insist that we do know. And, it is also disingenuous to insist that our understanding of Joseph Smith's Nauvoo theology as refracted through 20th century GA theologies is the one true understanding of Deity. It isn't. To say it is is silly.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

consiglieri wrote:One of the things I would like to put in my Mormon Fantasy Church would be adult programs that are on a par with the youth programs.

It seemed like things were very fun as a youth, and lots of church time and resources went into youth activities, but as soon as I got a little older and became a Young Adult, things went downhill rapidly.

Then when I got married, church programs seemed to evaporate completely.

Great idea for a thread by the way!


Great idea, consiglieri. My Fantasy Mormon Church is going to copy yours in this respect. Why? Because my Fantasy Mormon Church is much more family based than it is corporate based or even congregation based. So, we will have family activities. We will also have cool activities for the adults and cool activities for the kids. Different people can get together to do cool things at different times. The activities can be fun, educational, social, and inspiring. They can be one of those things at a time, or they can be a combination. There will be no demand that every activity invoke the presence of the Holy Spirit because that's silly.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_consiglieri
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Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _consiglieri »

Can we also do away with blessing sugary baked goods to strengthen and nourish our bodies?
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Kishkumen
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Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

Priesthood

In my Fantasy Mormon Church, all adults have the priesthood. Joseph Smith extended the priesthood to both men and women. We do not need a bifurcated church organization with a strict separation between male priesthood holders and female non-priesthood holders. No one needs to give women the priesthood because they already have it. It is given in the temple, and now my Fantasy Mormon Church will simply recognize it outside of the temple too. This does not mean that if guys want to have a guys only activity, or ladies want to have an all ladies activity, or trans folks want to go to whichever one of those they feel like attending, they can't do that. Of course they can! What's the big deal?

In my Fantasy Mormon Church, we take an optimistic view of what Joseph Smith did in organizing a Relief Society as a priesthood body and run with it.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

consiglieri wrote:Can we also do away with blessing sugary baked goods to strengthen and nourish our bodies?


Indubitably. "Please bless these refined sugars such that they are turned to spinach when they hit my stomach, amen!"
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Fence Sitter »

My Fantasy Mormon Church would bring back things like Road Shows and intra-stake sports competitions. It would encourage the individuality of wards.

I would do away with the horrible carbon copy ward and stake house architecture we have and encourage different areas to build churches that reflected both Mormonism and the local culture. No carpeting would be allowed on any wall.

White shirts and ties would be the only forbidden clothing.

Only one meeting on Sunday, which would start with a variety of different Sunday School classes one could attend and end with a quick general meeting for announcements and sacrament.

The culture would be so accepting of diversity that one could get up and say "I don't really agree with most of what we believe but I like hanging out with you people" and he/she would get a standing ovation for the comment.

All missions would be service oriented.

Women would be eligible to any office that men held.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Fantasy Mormon Church

Post by _Kishkumen »

Gender

Let's face it, we have no freaking clue what life was like before we were born. I don't know whether I had a spirit penis, and someone else had a spirit vagina, and someone else had both, or not. I don't know whether being a god involves having resurrected sex with one of my many resurrected wives to create little spirit babies. Neither did Joseph Smith, and he did not teach anything of the sort that I can find. And even if he did, I don't know that I have to agree with him.

So the idea that God disapproves of someone's gender is just dumb. I am sorry, but the traditions of ancient Israelite society as transmitted in the Bible mixed with modern conservative mores and goofy interpretations do not the objective truth make.

My Fantasy Mormon Church welcomes all people. All are children of God. All are welcome to worship and participate fully. Our private lives are our own business. We come together in good faith to commune and worship. We expect people to treat each other with kindness and love. We do not interrogate our members about their sexual preferences. We do not possess a heavenly sex manual that governs everyone's behaviors. I see nothing about masturbation or homosexuality in Mormon scriptures. I am going to take that as divine progress and run with it.

The LDS Church is welcome to leave their gender teachings to twisted Fundamentalist Christians if they like. My Fantasy Mormon Church will not.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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