Doc, Homless in LA

[_karl61]

I was homeless in L.A for a while.

That was a really interesting read. What lead to your homeless situation, and what are you doing these days? Is it possible, iyo, that chronic homeless types can ever get on their feet?

- Doc

Hi Doc, it started with me going through some serious psychological trauma at work due to an assignment I was given. This was in the spring of 2001. I started experiencing severe depression and went out on leave for a while and then just resigned in the fall of 2003. I gave up my pay and all my benefits. My depression got so out of control friends encouraged me to file a claim against my old job. That was in January 2004. Even though I won all my cases and was placed on disability there were times when two different types of disabilities overlapped. I got a letter in the mail in 2011 saying I owed almost forty thousand for over payment. Even though they were suppose to give me a payment schedule they didn't and at the beginning started applying my whole check to the amount I owed. I moved out of my apartment and in with a relative. Then after that I lived in my truck in the desert, Victorville. I started a repayment schedule but the amount wouldn't cover a full apartment rent but would cover food, gas, insurance. In January 2014 my case finally settled. I also paid back all the money I owed, and decided to get out of California. I'm now in south east Idaho. It will be four years in May. I actually like it here and the cost is so much lower. I'm taking some classes at the college. I thinking of doing something in business like accounting or computer systems security. No more public service.

Regarding the homeless, it really depends. They need to get away from other homeless people, and be around someone or something that inspires them. They need basic life skills. Some may start by staying at a mission and maybe doing nothing but AA or NA meetings where they would learn the the importance of honesty and courage. They need some type of new paradigm. A new way to solve stressful issues. Something they can fall into in stressful times that doesn't harm them. The homeless that are schizophrenic and won't take their medication, or can't get medication or others that are constantly being asked to leave shelters because of their behavior, I don't know. It takes a real skillful team to help them.

[_EAllusion]

Apparently realizing that Hobo with a Shutgun could be seen as a documentary, one Senate candidate in Michigan just may have solved homelessness:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... h-shotguns

Doing wonders for proving libertarian candidates aren't kooks for us.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

He has a pretty slick homepage:

https://www.ellison4senate.com

- Doc

[_Markk]

You have no idea what you are discussing...do you have tents and people pooping in the streets in front of store fronts in the business districts of these cities.

I bet most of the homeless you talk, are in homes and shelters of sorts or in cars... and not literally laying on the streets. How often do the Madison police close down th streets and sanitize the storefronts of the businesses.

I am not saying people can’t understand, I am saying you have no idea what you are talking about. You simply have no idea.

You probably could've googled for 30 seconds rather than just make losing bets. You seem to think the homeless in California are particularly incorrigible. You have no basis to think that beyond your personal incredulity that people can have similar problems anywhere else.

How will you make sure these folks take their meds and do what they are suppose to do, in a city of millions, with 1/5th the homeless as y=th eintire population of your city?

Presumably a larger city means more people can be devoted to social services. It's a per capita problem that should scale up.

How many homeless people do you personally visit a day?

About zero. The people I help usually are in or are transitioning to a stable residence when I'm brought on board to help people function well in the community. I think you are still misunderstanding what I am saying.

Were did I say that homeless people are different...what is different is the volume. You keep putting words in my mouth which is your MO after you stick your foot in your mouth. A addict on the streets is a addict on the streets..the volume and the fact that is out of control is the issue.

You are still ducking my questions, specifically how people are going to manage the day to day needs of those that can't help themselves, who are scattered out in hundreds of square miles of LA, not to mention So Ca as a whole?

[_karl61]

markk wrote:


"South Central is a tough place. I am doing a project in Culver City and I stopped to get a bite to eat and was verbally abused by a guy in a wheel chair for not pushing him through the door. He was harmless but it was weird.

I would love to hear more of your experience their. I worked with the homeless for years in San Bernardino, And over the coarse of the years I helped in a ministry, I found that the only ones that made it out, for the very most part...were the ones that wanted to work at it. It was basically up to them no matter what kind of services they received.

I also found that some wanted out...and were not bad people, but just did not have the “tools” to make it out. Those were the ones that I was there for...those were the ones that deserved the help.

I found a lot of scamming, a lot of hustling, and a lot of people with no moral upbringing...and it may not be their fault, but it was just the fruit of how they were raised and what they were dealt.


Are these fair statments."

check the area along the 110 fwy in south los angeles.

http://homicide.latimes.com/

south central is really bad. No one uses the trash cans and there are stray dogs and crap all over the place. It looks like a hundreds of dumpsters were just emptied in the alleys. I use to check a map the L.A times had as to where murders were and there were a lot where I walked on broadway from 7th st. Downtown to Slauson. If I was walking Figueroa I would walk from Slauson up past USC and then sometimes across adams to broadway and then back down to slauson. It's hardcore gang area. About once a month I would see police cars driving past me and when I would finally get to the point there would yellow tape around a car or a market or something like that. You would hear gunfire all the time. I lived right next to the 110 fwy and it was like a constant stadium roar 24/7. Your assessment is right on. Many homeless are just tired of it and want out and want a better life. Others just don't have the insight to understand what a better life is. They need a new paradigm that motivates them and one they will stick with. But even if one is motivated the rents are so high that I don't see how they can stay even if they get vouchers for the security deposit.

[_Markk]

markk wrote:


"South Central is a tough place. I am doing a project in Culver City and I stopped to get a bite to eat and was verbally abused by a guy in a wheel chair for not pushing him through the door. He was harmless but it was weird.

I would love to hear more of your experience their. I worked with the homeless for years in San Bernardino, And over the coarse of the years I helped in a ministry, I found that the only ones that made it out, for the very most part...were the ones that wanted to work at it. It was basically up to them no matter what kind of services they received.

I also found that some wanted out...and were not bad people, but just did not have the “tools” to make it out. Those were the ones that I was there for...those were the ones that deserved the help.

I found a lot of scamming, a lot of hustling, and a lot of people with no moral upbringing...and it may not be their fault, but it was just the fruit of how they were raised and what they were dealt.


Are these fair statments."

south central is really bad. No one uses the trash cans and there are stray dogs and crap all over the place. It looks like a hundreds of dumpsters were just emptied in the alleys. I use to check a map the L.A times had as to where murders were and there were a lot where I walked on broadway from 7th st. Downtown to Slauson. If I was walking Figueroa I would walk from Slauson up past USC and then sometimes across adams to broadway and then back down to slauson. It's hardcore gang area. About once a month I would see police cars driving past me and when I would finally get to the point there would yellow tape around a car or a market or something like that. You would hear gunfire all the time. I lived right next to the 110 fwy and it was like a constant stadium roar 24/7. Your assessment is right on. Many homeless are just tired of it and want out and want a better life. Others just don't have the insight to understand what a better life is. They need a new paradigm that motivates them and one they will stick with. But even if one is motivated the rents are so high that I don't see how they can stay even if they get vouchers for the security deposit.

You said you were in Idaho now, that is great. It is hard to explain to others how bad it is here, and it has gotten so out of control it is almost madness.

It has probably almost doubled since you were here last...and while it was mostly in certain areas in years past, it is just everywhere.

What I am seeing is that they have their own economy. There are tents that sell drugs, alcohol, food, clothes, bicycle parts, and other such items. I saw an entrepreneur selling lighters...he actually had a tray strapped around his neck, like a beer vendor at a ball game, and was selling lighters to the folks in the tents.

They set up plywood tables and sell cigarettes by the cigarette... I have even seen portable swimming pools set up in the summer when it is hot on San Pedro by the missions. There are free cell phone stands on the corners giving out cell phones if they buy prepaid minutes.

I have done jobs is south central, and east LA, and every time we get ripped off almost weekly if we let our guard down. I am doing a project on Olyimic and Fig...across from the Staples Center...and we actually had a thief sign for material from a UPS delivery, he actually faked being a worker and signed for some electrical panel covers, which they probably just threw away or got a few bucks for scrap.

We also had people cut our locks and sweep out the parking lot and sell parking for Laker and King games...we found a sign for 65 buck a space. We called the cops after we figured it out, and they busted a motorcycle group selling the spaces...they were probably making 2k a night

Anyway, sorry to ramble, I am glad you made it out Karl...

[_Markk]

markk wrote:


"South Central is a tough place. I am doing a project in Culver City and I stopped to get a bite to eat and was verbally abused by a guy in a wheel chair for not pushing him through the door. He was harmless but it was weird.

I would love to hear more of your experience their. I worked with the homeless for years in San Bernardino, And over the coarse of the years I helped in a ministry, I found that the only ones that made it out, for the very most part...were the ones that wanted to work at it. It was basically up to them no matter what kind of services they received.

I also found that some wanted out...and were not bad people, but just did not have the “tools” to make it out. Those were the ones that I was there for...those were the ones that deserved the help.

I found a lot of scamming, a lot of hustling, and a lot of people with no moral upbringing...and it may not be their fault, but it was just the fruit of how they were raised and what they were dealt.


Are these fair statments."

check the area along the 110 fwy in south los angeles.

http://homicide.latimes.com/

south central is really bad. No one uses the trash cans and there are stray dogs and crap all over the place. It looks like a hundreds of dumpsters were just emptied in the alleys. I use to check a map the L.A times had as to where murders were and there were a lot where I walked on broadway from 7th st. Downtown to Slauson. If I was walking Figueroa I would walk from Slauson up past USC and then sometimes across adams to broadway and then back down to slauson. It's hardcore gang area. About once a month I would see police cars driving past me and when I would finally get to the point there would yellow tape around a car or a market or something like that. You would hear gunfire all the time. I lived right next to the 110 fwy and it was like a constant stadium roar 24/7. Your assessment is right on. Many homeless are just tired of it and want out and want a better life. Others just don't have the insight to understand what a better life is. They need a new paradigm that motivates them and one they will stick with. But even if one is motivated the rents are so high that I don't see how they can stay even if they get vouchers for the security deposit.

In regards to murder, it is so common it does not even make the news anymore unless it has a twist...like a kid, or multiple shootings. Brown on Brown and Black on Black does not even matter to reporters.

You stated you lived in Victorville, that is really getting bad also...meth and "white trash" has taken over many parts of the HD, and the crime there is crazy. With the new laws and pressures in CA...cops hardly even arrest people anymore for mid level crimes, in that they won't get convicted anyways, they just give them tickets.

[_EAllusion]

Were did I say that homeless people are different...what is different is the volume.

...

You keep putting words in my mouth which is your MO after you stick your foot in your mouth.

I literally quoted you saying what I claimed you said. It's in the very post you are quoting.

You go on a riff arguing that the homeless have worse problems in your neck of of the woods. You talk about how you bet homeless people in Madison don't literally lay on the streets, don't defecate in public, etc. Why you don't just look up whether that is true rather that make false suppositions is beyond me, but that's clearly something you felt the need to say.

The issue of volume is not as significant in the context of a vastly larger overall population. More homeless, but also more citizens able to interact with the problem of homelessness. I haven't done the per capita math, but I assume it is worse in the LA area on a per capita basis due to differences in weather, CA's notoriously bad housing policy, and LA's questionable approaches to homelessness that may be even worse than Madison's. What it isn't is what you've done, which is act like the problem is the same as if you import 50k homeless directly into a 300kish metro area. That would be a refugee crisis, but we're instead talking about an area that has millions of people.

You are still ducking my questions, specifically how people are going to manage the day to day needs of those that can't help themselves, who are scattered out in hundreds of square miles of LA, not to mention So Ca as a whole?

The population density of LA is greater than the areas you are comparing it too. It's about 5k per square mile to 3k per square mile in Madison, for instance. And on top of that, according to articles you link, LA has a containment approach to the homeless that herds them into downtrodden ares within the overall city. It's more homeless, but also more means available in principle to assist the homeless. I'm not sure why you think this is such an impossible task that the very idea of social services is laughable. The homeless face several barriers to taking needed medication ranging from having access to the prescribers and the means to pay for it, to knowing how to take their medications, to having motivation to do so. Every barrier has practices designed to reduce the problem that can be helpful in improving outcomes.

There are steps you can take to promote adherence to recommended medication schedules. And yes, it is absolutely true that sometimes the example I referred is all by itself effective. One reason I know this is I have personally overseen it. There are people all over the country, perhaps even in your neighborhood, who are relatively functional in their life, but have people hired to work with them specifically to help ensure they are following through on psychiatric care because without it they are at high risk for homelessness.

Here's a video I sometimes use in training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob5vubKWIac

It attempts to give people a taste of what it is like to experience psychosis. It's filmed in the fictional first person perspective of a schizophrenic. At the end, a person stops by. That person might be a friend, but I always see it as someone whose job it is to check-in with the character and possibly ensure they are on track with medications. Quite an ordinary day in the life of someone suffering from psychosis. Until this thread, it honestly hadn't occurred to me that someone would be baffled that people do that.

I can tell that what you are trying to get at is a situation where no form of housing has been secured for the person, which is not what my example referred to, but even then there are points of contact that can be set up with homeless people that improve their access to medication-based care.

[_EAllusion]

I know Madison has a reputation for being liberal, but its Bernie Sanders-esque mayor, Paul Soglin, long has had a hardened view of the homeless. When he's been in power it's a constant struggle between him and city alders on his attempts to crack down on the homeless. I'm sure if you google "Soglin" and "homeless" you'll get links as far as the eye can see. I'm comfortable saying that Soglin has a serious problem with the homeless. Several years ago when he was pushing against the county trying to fund day shelters for the homeless so people don't freeze to death, I remember him saying something to the effect of substance abuse kills 'em anyway.

One of the things that exists in the area is pop-up tent cities and people camping out and sleeping in public places all over downtown. Mayor Soglin has repeatedly introduced ordinance proposals to make this illegal and subject to fine and removal. He keeps getting shot down. It occurs to me that those proposals are modeled on other Madison-sized cities' versions. Because of course this problem exists in places other than where Markk lives.

[_Markk]

Were did I say that homeless people are different...what is different is the volume.

...

You keep putting words in my mouth which is your MO after you stick your foot in your mouth.

I literally quoted you saying what I claimed you said. It's in the very post you are quoting.

You go on a riff arguing that the homeless have worse problems in your neck of of the woods. You talk about how you bet homeless people in Madison don't literally lay on the streets, don't defecate in public, etc. Why you don't just look up whether that is true rather that make false suppositions is beyond me, but that's clearly something you felt the need to say.

The issue of volume is not as significant in the context of a vastly larger overall population. More homeless, but also more citizens able to interact with the problem of homelessness. I haven't done the per capita math, but I assume it is worse in the LA area on a per capita basis due to differences in weather, CA's notoriously bad housing policy, and LA's questionable approaches to homelessness that may be even worse than Madison's. What it isn't is what you've done, which is act like the problem is the same as if you import 50k homeless directly into a 300kish metro area. That would be a refugee crisis, but we're instead talking about an area that has millions of people.

You are still ducking my questions, specifically how people are going to manage the day to day needs of those that can't help themselves, who are scattered out in hundreds of square miles of LA, not to mention So Ca as a whole?

The population density of LA is greater than the areas you are comparing it too. It's about 5k per square mile to 3k per square mile in Madison, for instance. And on top of that, according to articles you link, LA has a containment approach to the homeless that herds them into downtrodden ares within the overall city. It's more homeless, but also more means available in principle to assist the homeless. I'm not sure why you think this is such an impossible task that the very idea of social services is laughable. The homeless face several barriers to taking needed medication ranging from having access to the prescribers and the means to pay for it, to knowing how to take their medications, to having motivation to do so. Every barrier has practices designed to reduce the problem that can be helpful in improving outcomes.

There are steps you can take to promote adherence to recommended medication schedules. And yes, it is absolutely true that sometimes the example I referred is all by itself effective. One reason I know this is I have personally overseen it. There are people all over the country, perhaps even in your neighborhood, who are relatively functional in their life, but have people hired to work with them specifically to help ensure they are following through on psychiatric care because without it they are at high risk for homelessness.

Here's a video I sometimes use in training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob5vubKWIac

It attempts to give people a taste of what it is like to experience psychosis. It's filmed in the fictional first person perspective of a schizophrenic. At the end, a person stops by. That person might be a friend, but I always see it as someone whose job it is to check-in with the character and possibly ensure they are on track with medications. Quite an ordinary day in the life of someone suffering from psychosis. Until this thread, it honestly hadn't occurred to me that someone would be baffled that people do that.

I can tell that what you are trying to get at is a situation where no form of housing has been secured for the person, which is not what my example referred to, but even then there are points of contact that can be set up with homeless people that improve their access to medication-based care.

See the new thread I started