What is an anti-Mormon?

[_grindael]

I suppose, since they acquitted OJ Simpson of murder (which he was found guilty of in a later trial), that the murders were LEGAL, right?

[_Shulem]

If I am guilty of the things you claim, then you are doubly so, because you have not condemned the burning of the Jackson county press in equally scathing terms, nor have you condemned anything done TO the Mormons.

I really dislike hypocrisy.

.....and I never justified the destruction of the Nauvoo press. I said that it was found to be legal in a court of law. It was.

We are discussing what Joseph Smith and his criminal band did. The mentioning of other crimes (above) is a separate matter, one which I've not chosen to comment on so your judgment of me and hypocrisy is unfounded. But you've chosen to comment on Smith's crimes and have sought to justify them. You're just as guilty in my eyes because you falsely claim such crimes were found to be legal and have not openly condemned your prophet. You're just as guilty as Joe!

[_grindael]

The thing is, there is enough blame to go around on both sides. The enemies of Joseph, like Sharp and others, got off on his murder. The Mormons got off on the Expositor affair. That was payback to them, for what happened at the murder trial. It's easy to explain, but claiming that either was LEGAL is simply ridiculous.

[_grindael]

No one in their right mind would claim that the murder of the Smith's was LEGAL because his murderers were acquitted.

[_Themis]

But 'picking and choosing' what to believe is what TBM's DO. Or rather, are supposed to do. We ARE supposed to examine, study and pray about everything, right? Get the confirmation of the Holy Ghost for beliefs?

Have you? Can you provide an example of an LDS doctrine you got confirmation of the Holy Ghost that was wrong. You say you don't believe in a global flood which is the doctrine of the church, but was that because the Holy Ghost told you it was wrong or was it from secular learning of science and how the world works? by the way I would say you are a cafeteria Mormon and TBM. Cafeteria to me fits better with chapel Mormon then TBM.

I assume Niadna that you have no examples. Not a surprise. I cannot think of anyone, still in the church, who has even tried to study and pray about each doctrine. One couple did and got some different answers. When they tried to correct the church they found themselves quickly excommunicated. That means you came to a conclusion about things like the global flood were wrong through just learning about the sciences and why a global flood is not possible. So did I.

[Guest]

Well, at this point, I can only assume that we will see niadna return, admit he/she was mistaken and reevaluate his/her belief in the Mormon church and the reliability of the spirit that he/she uses to inform her failed defenses and untrue belief in imaginary foundational stories. I mean, that’s what a normal person does when they realize their beliefs are based on faulty and/or fabricated “knowledge” right? Reevaluate and consider that if they are wrong about something this basic then maybe they are wrong about all kinds of things and, man, there are all kinds of wrong things taught in the Mormon church...that’s what led me and Millions of others out of Mormonism or the churches they born into. Conditioning and socialization can’t make up for completely fabricated foundational stories.

uhmn....no.

When I am wrong about something I will certainly acknowledge it.

But in this case?

I'm not wrong. The destruction of the press WAS found to be legal, and Joseph Smith did offer to pay for the destroyed type. I gave the references for both. The actual quote for the offer to pay for the type is going to have to wait for a few days because I don't have the book yet, but as soon as it gets here I'll give you the precise wording.

In the meantime, this has been alluded to in several places. Joseph Smith acknowledged that while the destruction of the press was legal, the destruction of the TYPE was not and was willing to pay for that.

Lol. I was being sarcastic. I had no doubt that you wouldn't admit you were wrong and reevaluate your faith. You, like every other “apologist” who has come through here, instead, chose to double down and insist you are right in the face of facts contrary to your position.

What I find humorous is that you came stomping into this forum, all full of bluster and naïveté, and proceeded to go prison rules and pick fights with some of the “biggest”, most knowledgeable members in order to earn some street cred. Instead, you have repeatedly had your arse handed to you and have been made to look a little foolish and incapable reevaluating what you have chosen to believe. But, hey, why change it up. You are not the first and certainly won’t be the last of your kind to pass through.

[_grindael]

I also never claimed that Gov. Ford was enamored of the Mormons or of Mormonism. He wasn't.

And I never said you did. Who do you think you are talking to? This is the SECOND TIME you have put words in my mouth that didn't come from there. Please STOP DOING THIS.

You don't understand Mormon history, you're comprehension skills are dismal, and you keep repeating the same erroneous tripe you are spewing here over and over again in the face of the actual evidence that proves you wrong.

You are not about "facts and evidence", you are simply another dishonest Mormon Apologist.

[_Shulem]

No one in their right mind would claim that the murder of the Smith's was LEGAL because his murderers were acquitted.

Right. But I think he deserved what he got.

he he

[_grindael]

And when Ford said "a pox on both their houses", he said so because the Mormons had tampered with their jury which found them innocent, and the anti-Mormons who had tampered with their jury also found their people innocent.

Do you even understand the CONTEXT of the quote you used? Obviously not. You are so eager to exonerate Smith from his wrongdoing that you simply latch on to whatever you please and rip it out of it's historical context. That is very disingenuous, and won't convince anyone except those that want to agree with you because they too, don't want to deal with the actual evidence and facts.

[_Fence Sitter]

If I am guilty of the things you claim, then you are doubly so, because you have not condemned the burning of the Jackson county press in equally scathing terms, nor have you condemned anything done TO the Mormons.

I really dislike hypocrisy.

.....and I never justified the destruction of the Nauvoo press. I said that it was found to be legal in a court of law. It was.

Time out.

I know your getting hit from a lot of sides and I am trying not to add to that but the destruction of the Jackson press is not what is being discussed here. You raised the issue of the Nauvoo Press and the offer by Joseph Smith to pay for it and others are following that lead. If you want to discuss the Jackson county press, fine, but don't you think you should wait to actually hear people's opinions on that subject before calling them hypocrites? Otherwise all your doing here is a classic tu quoque response.