subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

[_canpakes]

Do we all agree that it is wrong to let a conscious human die?

Waitaminute. The way you’ve worded that would include a 94-year old freely dying from natural causes. : )

[_honorentheos]

Do we all agree that it is wrong to let a conscious human die?

What qualifies as conscious to you, DT? Is it different than self-awareness? Is it just nerve activity caused by external stimuli that triggers a response? Is it a state of higher being attained only through meditation and enlightenment?

[_DoubtingThomas]

Do we all agree that it is wrong to let a conscious human die?

What qualifies as conscious to you, DT? Is it different than self-awareness? Is it just nerve activity caused by external stimuli that triggers a response? Is it a state of higher being attained only through meditation and enlightenment?

I don't know because science hasn't given us an answer yet. All we know is that a fetus less than 24 weeks is probably not conscious. "Assuming that consciousness is mainly localized in the cortex, consciousness cannot emerge before 24 gestational weeks when the thalamocortical connections from the sense organs are established" Lagercrantz, Hugo. "The emergence of consciousness: science and ethics." Seminars in Fetal and Neonatal Medicine. Vol. 19. No. 5. WB Saunders, 2014.

It is clear that abortion before 24 weeks shouldn't be prohibited.

[_EAllusion]

You're doing something similar to Subs DT in that you are just assuming your criteria for personhood is correct without giving any indication you've explored why.

[_DoubtingThomas]

You're doing something similar to Subs DT in that you are just assuming your criteria for personhood is correct without giving any indication you've explored why.

I assume it is wrong to let a conscious human die. Is there a reason why we should let conscious humans die? Now I am not saying I believe the fetus is conscious because we really don't know.

Now abortion is an interesting debate, but it is not an important issue for me. I personally don't care much especially because science doesn't have many answers yet, but the nonsense on both sides is kind of annoying.

[_DoubtingThomas]

You're doing something similar to Subs DT in that you are just assuming your criteria for personhood is correct without giving any indication you've explored why.

How do you define personhood? Why does personhood begin at birth?

Now I don't have a position. I am agnostic.

[_EAllusion]

You're doing something similar to Subs DT in that you are just assuming your criteria for personhood is correct without giving any indication you've explored why.

How do you define personhood? Why does personhood begin at birth?

Now I don't have a position. I am agnostic.

You just expressed a position. If you think it's Ok to kill fetuses under 24 weeks old because they aren't likely to be conscious, you clearly are arguing that consciousness is important to personhood. I think you are taking this to be self-evident, but, like subgenius's flailing assumptions about being human, this is something that requires justification.

[_honorentheos]

I don't know because science hasn't given us an answer yet. All we know is that a fetus less than 24 weeks is probably not conscious. "Assuming that consciousness is mainly localized in the cortex, consciousness cannot emerge before 24 gestational weeks when the thalamocortical connections from the sense organs are established" Lagercrantz, Hugo. "The emergence of consciousness: science and ethics." Seminars in Fetal and Neonatal Medicine. Vol. 19. No. 5. WB Saunders, 2014.

It is clear that abortion before 24 weeks shouldn't be prohibited.

You seem to have tried to answer the question of when is consciousness and saying we don't know. What is meant by consciousness, DT?

[_subgenius]

You're doing something similar to Subs DT in that you are just assuming your criteria for personhood is correct without giving any indication you've explored why.

as are you.

[_EAllusion]

You're doing something similar to Subs DT in that you are just assuming your criteria for personhood is correct without giving any indication you've explored why.

as are you.

Where would that be? I have taken no stance on personhood in this thread. In previous discussions I have laid out in some detail how one would go about defending what I think *and* some other positions.

By all means, please quote the posts I wrote in this thread defending a criteria for personhood.