Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteria

[_canpakes]

I've asked a number of people why they dislike Clinton so much but they never can give any real detail or back up with good evidence of any really horrible. It appears to be people thinking what their tribe tells them to.

Completely agree. I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, but I've run the same exercise as you with people who claim that she's basically Pantsuit Satan, but who cannot even begin to tell me what their actual problem is with her. They simply end up repeating weak Fox talking points about non-existent scandals or babbling, "Emails!!1!1" without having any competent explanation about what any of that means to them.

I didn't want to be dismissive of any of these folks' opinions during that election, but at some point, I just felt like they left me no choice given their willing surrender of intellect to stupid partisan rhetoric.

[_Ceeboo]

I've asked a number of people why they dislike Clinton so much but they never can give any real detail or back up with good evidence of any really horrible. It appears to be people thinking what their tribe tells them to.

Completely agree. I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, but I've run the same exercise as you with people who claim that she's basically Pantsuit Satan, but who cannot even begin to tell me what their actual problem is with her. They simply end up repeating weak Fox talking points about non-existent scandals or babbling, "Emails!!1!1" without having any competent explanation about what any of that means to them.

I didn't want to be dismissive of any of these folks' opinions during that election, but at some point, I just felt like they left me no choice given their willing surrender of intellect to stupid partisan rhetoric.

Absolutely breath-taking!

I almost can't believe what I read here some times.

[_canpakes]

CP!

Given that we have probably three 'regulars' on this board that could be identified as firmly residing on the right-leaning side of the political fence,

Only 3! Who are they?

I'd put subs, WaterDog and ajax in that category. I'm sure that there are others but I tend not to see folks in that way unless they purposefully make it their business to present themselves as such.

I guess that I could park you in the same category from an ideological standpoint, but you come at it with a different approach and attitude.

[_canpakes]

Absolutely breath-taking!

I almost can't believe what I read here some times.

Ceeboo, it's my own opinion that you should read some of these comments in a 'less than absolute' manner. Meaning, my statement may be my experience with a good number of folks, but it isn't an indictment against all folks who did not vote for Hillary Clinton.

As example, my own father - a really smart cookie - is one of those folks who couldn't explain his hate of Hillary Clinton in any coherent way. He's an extended-duty vet (high officer) and otherwise articulate and thoughtful. After about a year of trying to weave around his routine of merely repeating crappy Fox talking points about Benghazi and such, what was finally distilled from our conversation was that he voted for Trump because he believed that Trump was more willing to spend on the military and keep America 'strong'.

In the end, all of the "Hillary is Evil because I Don't Know Why" crap shoveled into his head from Fox had little to do with where his vote landed, versus his preferences for certain priorities that represented the bulk of his adult life experiences and responsibility. It's just that he either didn't recognize that on its face or simply did not wat to admit to that rationale. I don't know which.

Anyhow, there you go.

[_Ceeboo]

Absolutely breath-taking!

I almost can't believe what I read here some times.

Ceeboo, it's my own opinion that you should read some of these comments in a 'less than absolute' manner. Meaning, my statement may be my experience with a good number of folks, but it isn't an indictment against all folks who did not vote for Hillary Clinton.

Not only is this your opinion, it's excellent and very wise advice in my opinion - and I will take (Thanks for sending it over)

As example, my own father - a really smart cookie - is one of those folks who couldn't explain his hate of Hillary Clinton in any coherent way. He's an extended-duty vet (high officer) and otherwise articulate and thoughtful. After about a year of trying to weave around his routine of merely repeating crappy Fox talking points about Benghazi and such, what was finally distilled from our conversation was that he voted for Trump because he believed that Trump was more willing to spend on the military and keep America 'strong'.

In the end, all of the "Hillary is Evil because I Don't Know Why" crap shoveled into his head from Fox had little to do with where his vote landed, versus his preferences for certain priorities that represented the bulk of his adult life experiences and responsibility. It's just that he either didn't recognize that on its face or simply did not wat to admit to that rationale. I don't know which.

Anyhow, there you go.

Got it and thank your dad for his service for me.

[_canpakes]

[Okay, there were approximately 60 million American citizens that voted for Trump. Of those 60 million people, how many of them do you think are seen as a "racist" or a "nazi" or a "sexist" or a "homophobe" by countless people who hold differing political views?

Ceeboo, there are a few ways to interpret what you are describing.

You can think that all folks who didn't vote for Trump characterize those that did in the way that you've stated it above.

Or, it can be acknowledged that those same non-Trump-voters don't see Trump voters as racists per se, but as folks who may be willing to put an apparent racist (in their opinion) in office. To these folks, there's a disconnect between hearing folks say, "I'm not a racist!" while those same folks then pull the lever for a man who makes it a central chord of his message that (as example) most immigrants are criminals and rapists, because they're not Americans.

A flip side to this is that there really isn't a two-sided coin to be flipped here, deciding when a person is 'a racist' or not. There is really more of a spectrum of attitudes and actions from one ideological end to the other. Everyone, regardless of which of the two candidates they voted for, can - and will at some point - hold an arguably racist attitude or commit a racist action of some type. No side owns that position exclusively. But there are some legitimate concerns with how certain elements within the social landscape align on Trump's side and why they do, and how Trump won't stand up against those folks and their public actions. This is a codependency that serves a very narrow and dangerous agenda.

[_canpakes]

but I was wondering what you thought she would do that would harm the US economically

I think what Lisa said covers it.

[_Themis]

Absolutely breath-taking!

I almost can't believe what I read here some times.

Yet you avoid giving any specifics. My experience is almost always because they don't know any. If you ever want to try I will listen.

[_Ceeboo]

CP

Our recent exchanges (as well as other posts you have made recently that I read but that I did not specifically respond to) have been the highlight of the entire thread to me. It has caused me to think, it has prompted me to reflect and perhaps most importantly (selfishly speaking) - it has brought me pleasure. for what it's worth, this is something that I haven't had a lot of on the board for a while now (To be clear, I place no blame on anyone for my lack of board pleasure lately - I fully recognize that the person who is most responsible for my pleasure - or has the greatest impact on determining my pleasure, or lack there of, is the one writing this post.)

Or, it can be acknowledged that those same non-Trump-voters don't see Trump voters as racists per se, but as folks who may be willing to put an apparent racist (in their opinion) in office. To these folks, there's a disconnect between hearing folks say, "I'm not a racist!" while those same folks then pull the lever for a man

I understand your point and I can see how it can be the catalyst for a disconnect.

But the disconnect that you describe doesn't seem to be the only disconnect on the dance floor. The band is awesome and it's Friday night. There is a lot of people out there bumping and grinding.

Let me see if I can pick one person out of the crowd and drill down a bit. Okay there is a tall Mexican fellow in a silk yellow shirt doing the hustle, do you see him?. He voted for Trump because he is a small business owner with three kids and (in his opinion - right or wrong) Trump would create a path for him to be able to afford health insurance for the three people he loves most on planet earth. Something he can't afford now.

So he exercises his constitution right to vote and he votes for Trump. Now that we have mixed all the ingredients together and he has returned from the voting booth, he finds that people are willing to call him a racist! What - Welcome to disconnect number 2.

And there are still hundreds of people still dancing that we haven't even met yet.

My point is that people vote for a variety of reasons (Not just this past election but every election) and most of the time they vote for what they think is in their best interest - and/or in the best interest of their country (Even if they are proven wrong down the road)

[_Ceeboo]

Dup!