Kavanaugh and Perjury

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_Gunnar
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Gunnar »

I strongly suspect that Trump is so anxious to confirm Kavanaugh precisely because he is hoping that Kavanaugh is not the paragon of virtue and integrity Trump claims him to be. And yet, it cannot be denied that the American Bar Association, which, if anything, has at least a slight liberal bias,
Regardless of their bias, the ABA has now given Brett Kavanaugh the association's highest possible ranking. The president's previous Supreme Court nominee, Justice Neil Gorsuch, also received this ranking.


On the other hand, according to Eric Levitz of the Daily Intelligencer:
"If the Democrats are to function as an effective check on the creeping threat of perpetual minority rule in the United States, they will need to recognize that deference to institutional norms does not always fortify our republic — but rather, can actually jeopardize its survival. To subordinate substantive concerns about Brett Kavanaugh’s jurisprudence to the president’s prerogative to appoint “qualified” Supreme Court justices is not to subordinate myopic ideological preferences to liberal democratic values — it is to subordinate liberal democratic values to reverence for established norms and customs."

In addition, Sen. "Sheldon Whitehouse, Rhode Island Democrat, said the ABA’s evaluation didn’t look at the amicus briefs in the cases that came before the judge during his 12 years on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. Mr. Whitehouse said an evaluation of those filings would show the judge is biased toward Republican corporate interests."

I also suspect that if Kavanaugh is confirmed, and subsequently proves to actually be the paragon of virtue and integrity Trump claims, Trump will eventually be subjected to a rude and disappointing awakening when Kavanaugh rules against some of Trump's excesses and disregard for law, just as he has been disappointed and enraged when some of his associates displayed a flash of integrity like, for example, Jeff Sessions recusing himself from the Mueller investigation.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_aussieguy55
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _aussieguy55 »

Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
_Chap
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Chap »

Senate Democrats Investigate a New Allegation of Sexual Misconduct, from Brett Kavanaugh’s College Years

As Senate Republicans press for a swift vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, President Trump’s nominee to the Supreme Court, Senate Democrats are investigating a new allegation of sexual misconduct against Kavanaugh. The claim dates to the 1983-84 academic school year, when Kavanaugh was a freshman at Yale University. The offices of at least four Democratic senators have received information about the allegation, and at least two have begun investigating it. Senior Republican staffers also learned of the allegation last week and, in conversations with The New Yorker, expressed concern about its potential impact on Kavanaugh’s nomination. Soon after, Senate Republicans issued renewed calls to accelerate the timing of a committee vote. The Democratic Senate offices reviewing the allegations believe that they merit further investigation. “This is another serious, credible, and disturbing allegation against Brett Kavanaugh. It should be fully investigated,” Senator Mazie Hirono, of Hawaii, said. An aide in one of the other Senate offices added, “These allegations seem credible, and we’re taking them very seriously. If established, they’re clearly disqualifying.”

The woman at the center of the story, Deborah Ramirez, who is fifty-three, attended Yale with Kavanaugh, where she studied sociology and psychology. Later, she spent years working for an organization that supports victims of domestic violence. The New Yorker contacted Ramirez after learning of her possible involvement in an incident involving Kavanaugh. The allegation was conveyed to Democratic senators by a civil-rights lawyer. For Ramirez, the sudden attention has been unwelcome, and prompted difficult choices. She was at first hesitant to speak publicly, partly because her memories contained gaps because she had been drinking at the time of the alleged incident. In her initial conversations with The New Yorker, she was reluctant to characterize Kavanaugh’s role in the alleged incident with certainty. After six days of carefully assessing her memories and consulting with her attorney, Ramirez said that she felt confident enough of her recollections to say that she remembers Kavanaugh had exposed himself at a drunken dormitory party, thrust his penis in her face, and caused her to touch it without her consent as she pushed him away. Ramirez is now calling for the F.B.I. to investigate Kavanaugh’s role in the incident. “I would think an F.B.I. investigation would be warranted,” she said.

In a statement, Kavanaugh wrote, “This alleged event from 35 years ago did not happen. The people who knew me then know that this did not happen, and have said so. This is a smear, plain and simple. I look forward to testifying on Thursday about the truth, and defending my good name—and the reputation for character and integrity I have spent a lifetime building—against these last-minute allegations.”

The White House spokesperson Kerri Kupec said the Administration stood by Kavanaugh. “This 35-year-old, uncorroborated claim is the latest in a coordinated smear campaign by the Democrats designed to tear down a good man. This claim is denied by all who were said to be present and is wholly inconsistent with what many women and men who knew Judge Kavanaugh at the time in college say. The White House stands firmly behind Judge Kavanaugh.”

Ramirez said that, when both she and Kavanaugh were freshmen at Yale, she was invited by a friend on the women’s soccer team to a dorm-room party. She recalled that the party took place in a suite at Lawrance Hall, in the part of Yale known as Old Campus, and that a small group of students decided to play a drinking game together. “We were sitting in a circle,” she said. “People would pick who drank.” Ramirez was chosen repeatedly, she said, and quickly became inebriated. At one point, she said, a male student pointed a gag plastic penis in her direction. Later, she said, she was on the floor, foggy and slurring her words, as that male student and another stood nearby. (Ramirez identified the two male onlookers, but, at her request, The New Yorker is not naming them.)

A third male student then exposed himself to her. “I remember a penis being in front of my face,” she said. “I knew that’s not what I wanted, even in that state of mind.” She recalled remarking, “That’s not a real penis,” and the other students laughing at her confusion and taunting her, one encouraging her to “kiss it.” She said that she pushed the person away, touching it in the process. Ramirez, who was raised a devout Catholic, in Connecticut, said that she was shaken. “I wasn’t going to touch a penis until I was married,” she said. “I was embarrassed and ashamed and humiliated.” She remembers Kavanaugh standing to her right and laughing, pulling up his pants. “Brett was laughing,” she said. “I can still see his face, and his hips coming forward, like when you pull up your pants.” She recalled another male student shouting about the incident. “Somebody yelled down the hall, ‘Brett Kavanaugh just put his penis in Debbie’s face,’ ” she said. “It was his full name. I don’t think it was just ‘Brett.’ And I remember hearing and being mortified that this was out there.”

Ramirez acknowledged that there are significant gaps in her memories of the evening, and that, if she ever presents her story to the F.B.I. or members of the Senate, she will inevitably be pressed on her motivation for coming forward after so many years, and questioned about her memory, given her drinking at the party.

And yet, after several days of considering the matter carefully, she said, “I’m confident about the pants coming up, and I’m confident about Brett being there.” Ramirez said that what has stayed with her most forcefully is the memory of laughter at her expense from Kavanaugh and the other students. “It was kind of a joke,” she recalled. “And now it’s clear to me it wasn’t a joke.”
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

aussieguy55 wrote:https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez?utm_source=CNN+Media%3A+Reliable+Sources&utm_campaign=03504961be-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_09_11_04_47_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e95cdc16a9-03504961be-90679661


It's amazing how many of the posters on this forum don't follow threads. Weird.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Kevin Graham wrote:So we have Cristina King Miranda who you keep saying is a liar based on zero evidence.


Wow. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think the GOP is the only entity that'll be wiping egg of their face. Jesus, Kevin, you could at least get informed before you start waving your arms around in hysterics.

How can I have a conversation with someone that can't at least put a bit of effort into their trolling crap posting?

eat: This is yet another good example of why the Democrats' tactics are effective. People don't have the stamina to understand the players, understand the gameplan of either side, and wildly whip one another up into a frenzy based on BS and role players. They can be dead damned wrong, and yet here comes the partisans flailing about thinking if they're just hysterical enough they'll get their way.

And they often do, which is sad.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_subgenius
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _subgenius »

Ford, instead of notifying the police, thought it better to write letter(s) to Feinstein and then waited patiently for Feinstein to be the one to determine when it would be best to issue a press release....all the while never going to the authorities.
Yep, glad integrity is whats up cor discussion.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:So we have Cristina King Miranda who you keep saying is a liar based on zero evidence.


Wow. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think the GOP is the only entity that'll be wiping egg of their face. Jesus, Kevin, you could at least get informed before you start waving your arms around in hysterics.


Hysterics? I'm simply quoting you. You said sarcastically before linking the article about Christina King Miranda:

Women would never lie about this sort of thing:


Then you went on to call this a lie several times where the article never supports that claim:

Here was a typical article about this woman's lie:

You'll note just how detailed and extensive her lie was. You'll also note that after she deleted her lie she said it "served its purpose." You'll further note when caught in her lie she resorted to stating that she didn't know if Ms. Ford's allegation was true or not.
- Doc


You're clearly the one engaging in "hysterics" trying desperately to throw shade on the allegations against Kavanaugh and further trying to discredit Ford and any other woman who makes any similar allegation. You're reading things into her comments things she didn't say. You obviously interpret "served its purpose" as her saying she admits lying about it but lying is just a means to an end. But that isn't what she said at all.

How can I have a conversation with someone that can't at least put a bit of effort into their trolling ____ posting?


I just quoted you. And you're calling me hysterical for asking you to explain what evidence you have that Cristina King lied.

eat: This is yet another good example of why the Democrats' tactics are effective.


You can't even make it to step two in an argument without derailing with the "see how Democrats are" nonsense. This has nothing to do with Democrats. You've been slamming Ford and took for granted that she all all other women are lying while at the same time slamming those who would even imply that Kavanaugh could possibly be lying. I don't know of anyone here on the "Left" who has said definitively that Kavanaugh is guilty. It is just obvious that this needs to be investigated given what's at stake, but you're perfectly cool with letting a potential rapist sit on the highest court in the land because... well, women lie.
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Kevin Graham »

subgenius wrote:Ford, instead of notifying the police, thought it better to write letter(s) to Feinstein and then waited patiently for Feinstein to be the one to determine when it would be best to issue a press release....all the while never going to the authorities.
Yep, glad integrity is whats up cor discussion.


Yes, because we all know that if she had reported it to the police first (which makes absolutely no damned sense) you and your GOP tribe of women haters would instantly consider her a credible witness.

subs, you're setting yourself up as one more of the despicable folks who could be wiping egg off his face as well. What if Kavanaugh gets confirmed and then Avenatti releases convincing evidence, as he says he has, that Kavanaugh is every bit the man his accusers describe?

Especially after the Right Wing "fair and balanced" propaganda machine has been in full blown overdrive trying to attack his accusers as a bunch of lying opportunists set up by the Democrats.
_subgenius
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _subgenius »

Kevin Graham wrote:Yes, because we all know that if she had reported it to the police first (which makes absolutely no damned sense) you and your GOP tribe of women haters would instantly consider her a credible witness....

Yeah, i get your point here...Ford was weighing her options for "what gives me the most credibility among Republicans?" and instead of reporting a crime to authorities she chose "Just tell Feinstein and let her handle it", because that route will establish hella-credibility....yep, you make sense, KG...a veritable finger on the pulse.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Gunnar
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Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Gunnar »

Of course she would want to do whatever gives her accusations the most credibility--especially if they true, and she genuinely wants to see real justice done. Can anyone justly fault her for that if she is telling the truth?
Last edited by Guest on Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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