Kavanaugh and Perjury

[_Res Ipsa]

You and Cam. Anyone who pushes back on nonsense you post is “deranged.”

Yes, because some posters here calling people rapists is so measured and decent. C'mon.

Of course you find talking to me unpleasant.

For what it's worth you're generally one of the most level-headed posters here. Although, I think you really went all in on this Kavanaugh thing.

I don’t just roll my eyes at your hyper partisan, conspiracy theory nonsense. I take it seriously, check it out, and where appropriate show exactly what you’ve done.

Now, how bout you post a link to those survey results you must be basing your claims on.

I think no matter what anyone posts that supports the notion that this was a failed hit by Democrat partisans we're just not going to get anyone who leans Left admitting as much. This was 100% a smear job by Democrat partisans. No conspiracy needed other than what D's were conspiring to do.

- Doc

I don’t think that someone calling you a rapist is “ranged.” But since I didn’t call you a rapist, I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean.

I really don’t understand your “all in” comment. To me, “all in” would be something like calling K a rapist starting at day 1. Or claiming K was lying through his teeth about Ford’s allegations. I don’t think I’ve done either of those things. I think I’ve been pretty consistent since day 1 in saying that Ford’s allegations were serious enough to warrant an investigation and that the investigation should be designed to get at the truth. It’s odd to me that you keep characterizing this as some sort of extreme position.

When you describe this whole thing as a “partisan hit job,” I’m not exactly sure what you mean. How do you think this whole thing happened? You say no conspiracy was required but that Ds were conspiring, which confuses me as to what you are saying. I’d agree that there are partisans out there who would have smeared K with this without regard for the truth. But I see nothing that would lead me to conclude Ford fabricated her story as a phony hit job.

[Guest]

RI,

Conspiracy in this sense, or the way I was using it was meant to denote the action of plotting or conspiring.

"they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice"

synonyms: plotting, collusion, intrigue, connivance, machination, collaboration; treason

"conspiracy to take Judge Kavanaugh out through a rape accusation"

It was clearly a collaborative effort. I don't know what to say if you or others on this board either aren't seeing it or aren't willing to discuss it in good faith.

eta: In case I'm not clear. I was poo poo'ing the notion of a tinfoil hat conspiracy a la JFK assassination and just stating that it was a plot, which is squarely within the realm of political realities.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I see EAllusion is still in rare form creating arguments and positions that literally don't exist and then defeating them.

Oh, by "do well in North Dakota" you meant, "lose slightly more respectably?" My bad. Totally obvious reading there.

Lessee.... West Virginia... West... Virginia... 1/2 Senators are Democrat and > than 1 in 3 in their state senate is Democrat. No Democrat reps, though. In the spirit of bridge building I'm willing to move away from my claim that West Virginia is purple and will call it... Rurple.

It's like you are unaware that a 2/3rds majority in a legislature is absolute domination by one party.

"Purple" usually refers to a close partisan split in a state such that it tends to swing in presidential elections and both parties have realistic chances of winning a majority of votes in a given election cycle. Wisconsin is a purple state. If you define it as, "has at least one elected office holder from both parties" then that's way different than what is usually meant by it, doesn't make sense on the context you were using it, and provides no helpful distinction. So par for the course I guess.

West Virginia has one of the largest partisan leans of any state in the country. The Cook Partisan index rates them as the 4th reddest state in the country, slightly behind Utah, Wyoming, and Oklahoma. It's redder than any state is blue. Trump won there by 42 points, slightly behind Wyoming for the second largest margin of victory he or Clinton had in any state. If it's purple, what state isn't purple? Just Wyoming?

As a reminder, out of all the 121 terms of statewide office that have been regularly elected since 1932, only seven were lost by the Democrats.

But, whatever. EAllusion says something is so and it must be totes the truth!

Yeah, West Virginia used to be very Democrat, and now it's very Republican. That doesn't make it purple. Show me one respectable source that describes WV as currently as a purple state. Note, your mind doesn't count.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Yeah, West Virginia used to be very Democrat, and now it's very Republican. That doesn't make it purple. Show me one respectable source that describes WV as currently as a purple state. Note, your mind doesn't count.

I literally gave you data. I really don't know what kind of pathos drives someone who desperately needs to be the way you are, but what can I say? Someone who sees that WV has a Democrat as a Senator, holds over a third of its state senate as Democrat seats, and voted in favor of Obama in '08 and '12, is somehow sure it's a lock for Republicans.

damned Jesus this Don Quixote mf'er.

It's very much a state that can be flipped for the Democrats if they have the right candidate. Maybe Mr. Perez can do it since he has a pulse?

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I literally gave you data.

Pointing out that Democrats won elections in WV in 1944 does not help establish that West Virginia is currently a purple state. In fact, the logic of the "data" you gave would imply that WV is a blue state since Democrats have won virtually all elections since 1932, right? But of course that's inane, as those prior elections don't bear on the current partisan split in the state. I linked actual data indicating it is one of the reddest states in the country.

I really don't know what kind of pathos drives someone who desperately needs to be the way you are, but what can I say? Someone who sees that West Virginia has a Democrat as a Senator, holds over a third of its state senate as Democrat seats, and voted in favor of Obama in '08 and '12, is somehow sure it's a lock for Republicans.

____ Jesus this Don Quixote mf'er.

Obama got destroyed in West Virginia in '08 and '12. Now you are confusing West Virginia with Virginia, so good job. 1/3rd of a state legislature is very poor. Anyway, found a respectable source yet?

It's very much a state that can be flipped for the Democrats if they have the right candidate. Maybe Mr. Perez can do it since he has a pulse?

- Doc

If Democrats win WV, then they've probably won almost every other state in the country first. If that's a swing state, then every state is a swing state and the term "swing state" is meaningless.

[_EAllusion]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/05/us/p ... h-fbi.html

The White House controlled the scope of the FBI investigation to get the outcome it wanted, lied about it, and essentially got away with it. That's good for democracy.

[_Res Ipsa]

RI,

Conspiracy in this sense, or the way I was using it was meant to denote the action of plotting or conspiring.

"they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice"

synonyms: plotting, collusion, intrigue, connivance, machination, collaboration; treason

"conspiracy to take Judge Kavanaugh out through a rape accusation"

It was clearly a collaborative effort. I don't know what to say if you or others on this board either aren't seeing it or aren't willing to discuss it in good faith.

eta: In case I'm not clear. I was poo poo'ing the notion of a tinfoil hat conspiracy a la JFK assassination and just stating that it was a plot, which is squarely within the realm of political realities.

- Doc

I can’t even try to see it your way if I don’t understand what that is. Did Ford make up the whole story?

[_EAllusion]

I can’t even try to see it your way if I don’t understand what that is. Did Ford make up the whole story?

It feels like conservative talking points you might find on a reddit message board settled around arguing that Ford is a sympathetic, credible witness who probably was sexually assaulted, but she was confused about or made up the "by Kavanaugh" part and was either a participant in or a pawn of a scam to manufacture that claim in order to derail Kavanaugh's rightful confirmation to the Supreme Court.

This is quite nutty, and I wouldn't assume anyone is arguing that unless they're more explicit about it. Just throwing that out there.

[_Res Ipsa]

I can’t even try to see it your way if I don’t understand what that is. Did Ford make up the whole story?

It feels like conservative talking points you might find on a reddit message board settled around arguing that Ford is a sympathetic, credible witness who probably was sexually assaulted, but she was confused about or made up the "by Kavanaugh" part and was either a participant in or a pawn of a scam to manufacture that claim in order to derail Kavanaugh's rightful confirmation to the Supreme Court.

This is quite nutty, and I wouldn't assume anyone is arguing that unless they're more explicit about it. Just throwing that out there.

I can’t tell and I don’t want to assume. That’s why I’m asking.

[_Gunnar]

I think the saddest thing about the Kavanaugh affair is that this man who has demonstrably lied under oath on multiple occasions to further his career and right wing agendas is going to wind up being confirmed not just despite that fact, but because of it. It is blazingly clear to me that Trump wanted Kavanaugh precisely because of his demonstated willingness to risk lying under oath, if called upon, to support extreme right wing agendas and wealthy corporate interests, and probably most of all because of Kavanaugh's well publicized view that a sitting President should be immune from indictment or investigation for wrongdoing or corruption.

ETA: If this nomination goes through, who in the future is going to feel constrained to refrain from lying before Congressional investigations and hearings?

On the other hand, when has anyone been deterred from lying under oath to congress? Has anyone ever been prosecuted and sentenced to prison for that?