November Election Thread

[_Dr Exiled]

Yeah, I think voting him out next time is the solution, not impeachment.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

What did Trump do that is a high crime or misdemeanor? I don't really like him as president but dislike isn't enough to impeach. Is it the false Russia narrative the cause for impeachment?

Ah. I wasn't tracking your position. Thanks for clarifying.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I hope not. I want to see the House passing bills on healthcare, infrastructure, clean energy, immigration, etc. to show what Democrats would do with control of the government.

You know what? You make an excellent point. I'd rather see legitimate governance taking place rather than what would amount to a waste of time because, despite KG's superdream of Republican Senators joining Democrats to impeach Trump happening, maybe we just allow the electorate to do what it does by voting?

- Doc

[_Kevin Graham]

Yeah, I think voting him out next time is the solution, not impeachment.

Normally I would agree but the impeachment process is likely to last at least until 2020, and that will ride heavily against Republicans in that election. Hillary voters backed off because many thought she was under FBI investigation, which could lead to impeachment. If Trump is in the process of being impeached, I don't see Republicans winning in 2020 no matter who they put up.

[_Kevin Graham]

I hope not. I want to see the House passing bills on healthcare, infrastructure, clean energy, immigration, etc. to show what Democrats would do with control of the government.

You know what? You make an excellent point. I'd rather see legitimate governance taking place rather than what would amount to a waste of time because, despite Kevin Graham's superdream of Republican Senators joining Democrats to impeach Trump happening, maybe we just allow the electorate to do what it does by voting?

- Doc

That's not a good reason to give him a pass on clearly impeachable offenses. The impeachment process is there for a reason. Trump is a criminal and should be treated as such.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Off the top of my head:

1) Government will grind to halt.
2) Partisan divisions will be exacerbated.
3) It will feed the Trump-as-victim narrative.
4) Pence is his successor. Pence is toxic. Pence is Trump sans Twitter.
5) House might impeach but Senate will never vote to remove.
6) Rancor.
7) Trump might feel like he needs to cooperate with Democrats, to cement his legacy. Impeachment would stop that.
8) And, we elected Trump. We deserve him. Let him fulfill whatever nasty promise he has. A shortened presidency will always be seen as "but he wasn't really given a chance."

These are pretty based reasons. You should run for office.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

That's not a good reason to give him a pass on clearly impeachable offenses. The impeachment process is there for a reason. Trump is a criminal and should be treated as such.

Take it up with Res Ipsa. Those are HIS reasons.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I think not impeaching Trump out of political considerations, much like not prosecuting Bush-era architects of torture, corrupts the system and creates an incentive for future impeachable offenses from future presidents. I'd argue Nixon being pardoned already did that to an extent and we continue to pay a price for it. In the case of Trump, the way in which he has turned his presidency into cash-cow for his businesses needs to be stopped or we're never going to see the end of it. The public already seems numb to the Trump Org being set up to be a bribery machine. This will not end with Trump unless Trump is repudiated as harshly as possible.

There are a lengthy list of serious, impeachable offenses regarding the Trump admin. They do indeed start with matters related to Russia, but just as seriously extend into all manners of corruption that our government was literally designed to stop.

[_Res Ipsa]

I hope not. I want to see the House passing bills on healthcare, infrastructure, clean energy, immigration, etc. to show what Democrats would do with control of the government.

You know what? You make an excellent point. I'd rather see legitimate governance taking place rather than what would amount to a waste of time because, despite Kevin Graham's superdream of Republican Senators joining Democrats to impeach Trump happening, maybe we just allow the electorate to do what it does by voting?

- Doc

The reason Democrats are doing as well as they are is that they ran on something positive: health care. They didn’t focus on being anti-Trump. If they take the House today, I think there is a good lesson to be learned there.

[_Kevin Graham]

Disagreeing with "intelligence" agencies is impeachable? Who is in control of the country in your view or should be in control, the president or the alphabet agencies? I thought president was.

Seriously? So you're perfectly cool with the President of the United States taking the word of a ruthless dictator who lies and murders for a living, when our own government intelligence agencies designed to inform and counsel the President are thrown under the bus? Why do we have the NSA, CIA, FBI at all? Trump wasn't basing his view on actual information, he was basing it on what he wanted to be true according to his own selfish political needs. Yes, that is impeachable and Former director of the CIA John Brennan thinks so as well: "Donald Trump's press conference performance in Helsinki rises to and exceeds the threshold of 'high crimes & misdemeanours'."

I don't think Clinton should have been impeached for lying about infidelity and neither should Trump.

So are we talking about what could justify impeachment or what you personally think should justify impeachment? By the way, Clinton wasn't impeached for infidelity, he was impeached for breaking the law to cover it up. So again the question stands. If Clinton could be impeached for this, why not Trump? The question wasn't whether or not he should be impeached.