What I learned today!

[_Chap]

When they put toilets here, they were used as a place to deal drugs and for prostitution.

For all I know, the private spaces provided by the good public toilet provision in the city I described are used by some to inject drugs, or even for prostitution. Anything you can do in 20 minutes in privacy can be done in those spaces. For most people, it's excretion. For others maybe something else. But for the record, the self-cleaning mechanism has made the place perfectly clean whenever I have used one.

I am sure many other private spaces in the city are used for similar purposes by people who own or rent accommodation, and do not have to live on the streets. But you know what? Just like I don't think it makes sense to abolish private housing because it might be used for drugs or prostitution, I don't think it makes sense to abolish good public toilets because they might be used for drugs or prostitution.

And to abolish public toilet provision and then be horrified when people perform their natural functions in the street is ... well, shall we say a little unrealistic?

[_Markk]

For all I know, the private spaces provided by the good public toilet provision in the city I described are used by some to inject drugs, or even for prostitution. Anything you can do in 20 minutes in privacy can be done in those spaces. For most people, it's excretion. For others maybe something else. But for the record, the self-cleaning mechanism has made the place perfectly clean whenever I have used one.

I am sure many other private spaces in the city are used for similar purposes by people who own or rent accommodation, and do not have to live on the streets. But you know what? Just like I don't think it makes sense to abolish private housing because it might be used for drugs or prostitution, I don't think it makes sense to abolish good public toilets because they might be used for drugs or prostitution.

And to abolish public toilet provision and then be horrified when people perform their natural functions in the street is ... well, shall we say a little unrealistic?

You simply have no idea how bad the growing problem is in cities like LA. And your post shows it. In LA, which I am very familiar with, how many public toilets do you think you would need in just 54 plus block skid row areas? 100, 200, 300? Who's supplying security and keeping people from living in them, or stopping people forcing people to pay to use them? Who is going to maintain them daily? Who's bringing in the sewer and water. Who is paying for all this. And most importantly who is going to force a person, like the person in the photo that SG pasted to actually use these toilets? There are multiple Missions on skid row and around LA that have public toilets and showers...they are available to those that want to use them, yet many don't.

There are literally thousands of tent homes on the streets of greater LA, and So Ca...and growing. would one toilet for every ten tents work?

You seem to believe these people pooping on the streets are like you...they are not Chap. Many haven't changed their clothes in months or years, let alone underwear if they have any. They don't bath Chap. Their brains are fried and gone, many people do not have the mental capacity to take care of themselves and others are just to lazy.

What city are you talking about?

[_moksha]

The public restroom facilities for the homeless in Salt Lake City have been hiring minimum wage workers to patrol these few facilities to make sure no more than one person is using the facility in order to decrease drug usage and two-person sex.

[_Chap]

You seem to believe these people pooping on the streets are like you...they are not Chap.

No, of course I don't. I know what poverty, social marginalisation and drugs can do in the long term by way of destroying people.

But there they are. It's your city (apparently) and you are a voting citizen, and they live on its streets. What do you want your city to do about it? And are you prepared to pay the cost of remedying a situation created by years of neglect of the city and the people who live on its streets? Cleaning up all that human wreckage won't come cheap, once you have let it go that far.

Or do you just enjoy complaining about it?

[_Markk]

The public restroom facilities for the homeless in Salt Lake City have been hiring minimum wage workers to patrol these few facilities to make sure no more than one person is using the facility in order to decrease drug usage and two-person sex.

I would not advise having minimum wage workers, or anyone other than trained/armed security, policing anything on the streets of LA, especially after dark. Respectively...you simply do not understand the situation. Picking up trash during the day okay, but that is about it. This may help you understand... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJP6K6L2C2g

Our last governor emptied the county jails to make room for prisoners emptied out of the state prison system. Many just walk the few blocks across the freeway to skid-row to live and hustle.

I posted this after I took it a few years ago, but in case you missed it. It is just one street out of who know how many in the 50 plus block area of skid row.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE46a0zTui8

[_Markk]

You seem to believe these people pooping on the streets are like you...they are not Chap.

No, of course I don't. I know what poverty, social marginalisation and drugs can do in the long term by way of destroying people.

But there they are. It's your city (apparently) and you are a voting citizen, and they live on its streets. What do you want your city to do about it? And are you prepared to pay the cost of remedying a situation created by years of neglect of the city and the people who live on its streets? Cleaning up all that human wreckage won't come cheap, once you have let it go that far.

Or do you just enjoy complaining about it?

It is not my city, I just work there, I live in another county. I am currently doing a project very near Union Station, and skid row is spreading over the 101 freeway into this area.

You did not tell me what city you are talking about...why?

In regards to chronic homelessness, my answer is we, the people, have got to want to change things, until we want to it won't happen. And I am not sure what the right answer is, but I am pretty sure I know what is the wrong answer based on the simple fact is it is not working, and that is pandering to the problem. Putting political band aids on the issue is not working.

The problem is not enough restrooms, the problem is these folks that are pooping in the streets, in most cases are fried, addicted, and sick...and all the tents, restrooms and free food, along with free incentives for work and housing will go ignored.

I understand at this point we need to spend money. But, the fact is though we do spend money, but we spend it foolishly. One of the things we need to do is open up places that RR closed down under his administration. And get those that are beyond ever helping themselves off the streets.

Can we agree that is a good place to start? If you disagree, what do we do with the thousands of people that are beyond ever helping themselves that live on the streets with no family support system?

Most of us here that are older, have had to take care of family member, or friend, that for what ever reason could/can't not take care of themselves...try to imagine if they were in a tent on the sidewalk in a city alone with little or no money, living with criminals and addicts ready to take advantage of them.

Getting these folks off the streets and getting them help would be my first priority, and unfortunately it may mean a institution for most for the rest of their lives.

Then I would deal with addiction and criminals that are chronically homeless. Then I believe this would free up the system to put good monies towards helping the ones that can get back into society.

Look at the video I pasted in my last thread at about a 1:30 minutes into it, if you look carefully you will see a public restroom in front of a homeless refuge park...if you had one every fifty feet it would not change a thing, in regards to the real issue.

Again, what city are you talking about, I would like to see what restrooms they actually use and how they implement the program.

[_huckelberry]

Markk, your presentation of the seriousness of the problem is convincing. What is the solution? or how can it be improved. (other than production of soylant green ) I think for general civic responsibility Chaps suggestion makes a lot of sense. I see your point as saying more is needed in the areas you describe due to the size of the problem.

[_Markk]

Markk, your presentation of the seriousness of the problem is convincing. What is the solution? or how can it be improved. (other than production of soylant green ) I think for general civic responsibility Chaps suggestion makes a lot of sense. I see your point as saying more is needed in the areas you describe due to the size of the problem.

Chap's idea of toilets is has been tried in LA, it did not work. They have toilets.

Maybe we were writing at the same time, but read my last post to Chap. I would love to hear other solutions. There is no definitive solution at this point other than first really wanting to slove this issue, which in the past moth or so is starting to get nation wide publicity of something that I have been trying to tell folks about for years. And mark by words it will come to your city sooner or later if nothing is done, and we don't act soon.

I had a very interesting conversation with a law enforcement officer yesterday who works in one of the largest county jails in the US. After I digest what I was told it will make a interesting thread, and ties into this conversation.

[_canpakes]

I understand at this point we need to spend money. But, the fact is though we do spend money, but we spend it foolishly. One of the things we need to do is open up places that RR closed down under his administration. And get those that are beyond ever helping themselves off the streets.

There’s a little bit about that here:

http://www.sfweekly.com/news/the-great- ... permanent/

Markk, do you interpret that Reagan’s goal was realistic but simply implemented poorly? Did his plan seem genuine, or merely convenient to a particular ideology? Why didn’t it work?

From the article:

Reagan's fix did not involve government. If only “every church and synagogue would take in 10 welfare families” each, the president said, the problem could be weathered until it passed.

Was that a reasonable or workable demand?

[_Markk]

There’s a little bit about that here:

http://www.sfweekly.com/news/the-great- ... permanent/

Markk, do you interpret that Reagan’s goal was realistic but simply implemented poorly? Did his plan seem genuine, or merely convenient to a particular ideology? Why didn’t it work?

From the article:

Reagan's fix did not involve government. If only “every church and synagogue would take in 10 welfare families” each, the president said, the problem could be weathered until it passed.

Was that a reasonable or workable demand?

That was a long time ago. Times have changed and his policies are not the only policies that contribute to today’s mess, far from it.

Churches do a lot, many, if not most street ministries are Christian based. Many large churches take on far more than 10 families.

I think churches can do much better and more, and I believe we as people can do more, I know I can. But...chronic homelessness is beyond that. I believe Dr. Steuss would understand this being he also worked/works with folks in the streets. Sad as it is, some folks can’t really be helped beyond being institutionalized, and there are so many more of these folks than there was in Reagan’s days.

What’s your “plan.”