Drawings by immigrant children

[_honorentheos]

Sure, Markk. You asserting it makes it so. According to this article from Slate, however:

Ultimately, many of the immigration enforcement tactics we find so appalling, like family detention and unsanitary and dangerous CBP processing centers, were happening during the Obama administration. The difference is that the Trump administration’s increased focus on deterring asylum-seekers and deporting as many people as possible, as well as a broad swath of changes to internal policy, has made terrible situations worse and subjected more people to them.

It also happens to answer JGs question.

According to former DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, it had been more than a decade since a child had died in CBP custody when Jakelin Caal Maquin died in December, which means that there were no deaths of children in CBP custody under Obama. Since Jakelin’s death late last year, at least four other children have died in CBP custody.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... obama.html

[_Jersey Girl]

I agree with this. Kids have a way of incorporating their perceived environment into their drawings. When I was 5, I lived in California, during a particularly bad year for mudslides. I realized this many years after the fact because as an adult I ran across a stash of my primitive drawings, of houses being squished by mudslides - no joke. I had no understanding of the impact of mudslides at that age, but I must have been aware enough of them to perceive them as the typical state of my local environment.

I’d imagine that kids in ‘secured’ facilities would similarly incorporate their observed environment into their own drawings, even if not immediately aware of the impact of that environment on themselves or their futures.

Right. Art is a form of self expression that provides emotional and psychological release. This is why art therapy exists.

Here's 9/11 as seen through the artwork of children. Just one example.

https://images.app.goo.gl/DMKxC2L346xjNVqy5

[_Markk]

Sure, Markk. You asserting it makes it so. According to this article from Slate, however:

Ultimately, many of the immigration enforcement tactics we find so appalling, like family detention and unsanitary and dangerous CBP processing centers, were happening during the Obama administration. The difference is that the Trump administration’s increased focus on deterring asylum-seekers and deporting as many people as possible, as well as a broad swath of changes to internal policy, has made terrible situations worse and subjected more people to them.

It also happens to answer JGs question.

According to former DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, it had been more than a decade since a child had died in CBP custody when Jakelin Caal Maquin died in December, which means that there were no deaths of children in CBP custody under Obama. Since Jakelin’s death late last year, at least four other children have died in CBP custody.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... obama.html

And???? We can p-hack all day long, and you like Jersey Girl are being used by the media to form your opinions.

The borders are being more or less bum rushed, and 4 deaths might actually pretty "good" ( no death is good, I understand that) for what they are dealing with.

Far more people die in the deserts than in the detention centers, so statistically they are far better off in the centers...but telling that story would hurt the narrative, which is election driven. We can p-hack how many die in the deserts each year and prove that the detention centers are safer. In fact it is not even close. And if those sick children were left walking in the desert...do you think they would live? Per your own p-hacked article, by default...Obama let far more people die in the Desert, than Trump let die in detention centers.

If we truly cared about these folks, then we ( our elected servants lol )would get together and stop the problem...but instead it is a "game of thrones scenario" and the folks trying to get in are the pawns.

Also we have people dying in filthy streets every day, and Children being shoved through a broken foster care system. Sad as it is, 4 sick children dying in US custody is probably statistically pretty good, given the problem we are facing.

Do you want to just open the border?

[_honorentheos]

P hack? Do you know what that means? How you use the term suggests not.

It's odd you imagine Trump's policies would discourage attempts to cross through deserts rather than at customs to claim asylum and that this has no effect on the decision making/risk taking that results in choosing to make a dangerous crossing through the desert.

There aren't easy answers to the issue, and it's going to get worse as the climate continues to change while economic inequality continues to increase. our being in denial of root causes is crazy but that's the world we live in. Our best immediate options at the border include increasing funding to facilitate due process and manage facilities better. Funding seems to be the perpetual issue across administrations.

It also doesn't help that under Trump volunteers seeking to help migrants have safer conditions in desert crossings are being prosecuted for simple things like leaving water where it could be found and save a life. That's crazy. Yet it's all part of the terror campaign that is our southern border strategy.

[_Markk]

Who exactly do you think you're talking to? You can't answer the question and so what? This is your idea of posturing?

I have no idea how many children died in custody, or how many died walking in the desert or drowned...or that were sold into sexual slavery by very bad people, during any administration, and ether do you. How many die in US hospitals after coming here sick? Again you don't know.

My question was specific enough that you should have been able to answer it given your claims. Thank you for admitting that your claim was ____.

I'm talking to you, an person thinking, or not thinking, with implanted emotional arguments by the media. Your question is based on nonsense and you offer no solution. Should we look at pictures of these kids lives as a whole? Most of them have seen things that are unspeakable in their journey. Google images " cartel violence Mexico" ...these kids probably feel safe in the centers if anything.

How many lives of young kids and people in general did we save, or really help out, at these detention centers?

Do you just want to open the borders Jersey Girl?

Being detained for a short time until they sort things out is not a bad thing given the alternative Jersey Girl. Can we make it more comfortable for them, and speed the process...maybe...then tell congress, both sides, to give more money to the problem. But if you think we can offer refugees and criminals hotel rooms you are not living in the real world. If you think we can just open the border...wake up.

[_Markk]

P hack? Do you know what that means? How you use the term suggests not.

It's odd you imagine Trump's policies would discourage attempts to cross through deserts rather than at customs to claim asylum and that this has no effect on the decision making/risk taking that results in choosing to make a dangerous crossing through the desert.

There aren't easy answers to the issue, and it's going to get worse as the climate continues to change while economic inequality continues to increase. our being in denial of root causes is crazy but that's the world we live in. Our best immediate options at the border include increasing funding to facilitate due process and manage facilities better. Funding seems to be the perpetual issue across administrations.

It also doesn't help that under Trump volunteers seeking to help migrants have safer conditions in desert crossings are being prosecuted for simple things like leaving water where it could be found and save a life. That's crazy. Yet it's all part of the terror campaign that is our southern border strategy.

Bull, you just surf the net and find a narrative that fits your argument, that what we do here, whether it be politics, sports, or religion.

You avoided the conclusion that detention centers are safer than the desert...yet you choose to follow the current narrative that the detention centers are bad, when given the influx of people our Border Patrol is doing a great job with what they have.

Are detention centers safer than deserts? Are they safer with Coyotes, than with Border patrol agents?

[_honorentheos]

I live in Arizona and have a profession interest that intersects the issues at the border. I have a bit more than a news surfers knowledge on this subject. I don't give any "F"s what you think. But you are full of crap. Making it harder to seek asylum encourages desert crossings. Forcing people to live in squalor out in the heat on the Mexican side of the border encourages desert crossings.

Seriously. You're full of crap.

[_subgenius]

I live in Arizona and have a profession interest that intersects the issues at the border. I have a bit more than a news surfers knowledge on this subject. ... ....

Ok, then maybe you can illuminate an issue/stat for me. Of the illegal immigrants that are seeking asylum, (1) what percentage first sought asylum any other way? and (2) what percentage have had legitimate asylum claims?

i would be curious in trend of perhaps last 2 or 3 decades. I realize (2) is a bit of a moving target giving that qualifications for claims may be inconsistent across administrations etc.

[_honorentheos]

Answer to 1) I think you mean something other than reality because you keep forgetting asylum can only be sought at the border or from inside the US. You seem to be asking how many asylum seekers first sought refugee status. But showing up at the border to request asylum doesn't make a person an illegal immigrant so there's a flaw in your question. Turns out a person can legally seek asylum at the border. Answer to 2) I assume you mean as determined by a court as there is this thing called due process. And that answer depends on which court hears the case and your nationality. We've been over this.

[_Maksutov]

Answer to 1) I think you mean something other than reality because you keep forgetting asylum can only be sought at the border or from inside the US. You seem to be asking how many asylum seekers first sought refugee status. But showing up at the border to request asylum doesn't make a person an illegal immigrant so there's a flaw in your question. Turns out a person can legally seek asylum at the border. Answer to 2) I assume you mean as determined by a court as there is this thing called due process. And that answer depends on which court hears the case and your nationality. We've been over this.

These not-so-subtleties will be acknowledged by the Trumpers around the time that they finally read the Mueller Report. Uh oh.