Barr to jail, Trump to impeachment

[_moksha]

I suggest it is prudent to back off on saying he needs jail time out of the gate because locking up political foes because they are foes and can be accused of doing bad things is what tyrants and despots do.

Honor, that jail idea for wrongdoing was more or less hyperbole. Trump has already said he will be forthcoming with pardons for everyone who aids and abets him in withholding information.

[_Res Ipsa]

May I suggest that you and your penguin friends Naruto run to take over the Justice Department? They can’t stop you all. And even if you took casualties, now that your genomes have been fully sequenced, we could just make more. http://www.sci-news.com/genetics/pengui ... 07614.html

AG Moksha. Has a nice ring to it.

[_EAllusion]

Penguin, you've already convicted and want judgement when the investigation is just beginning. Being the mirrored image of a Neocon Benghazi "locker her up" -type is a bad look.

Barr has already violated the law honor. That's out in the open. We don't need an investigation of that part to know it happened anymore than if we would if he shot someone on 5th avenue on live TV. So the question shifts to whether what he's doing is an offense that is (or ought) to be subject to jail time. "Wait for the investigation" is also a strange call on your part when what's being discussed here is Barr actively suppressing the investigation.

This is significantly different than Benghazi in that there was no validated underlying crime. It does prove the value of ginned up pseudo-scandals, though. There's always someone who is willing to equate actual scandals with fake ones and declare a pox upon both their houses.

[_Some Schmo]

The real problem with holding Trump accountable is that his supporters are religious zealots (i. e. not that bright and willing to believe ____ anything).

The real problem for you with Trump is that he won and now you can't find a way to undo it.

Donald Trump has tapped into something that... blah blah blah religious nonsense.

Like I said, you have to be not that bright and willing to believe damned anything.

I didn't need you to demonstrate, but thanks anyway.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey POOM

The real problem with holding Trump accountable is that his supporters are religious zealots (i. e. not that bright and willing to believe ____ anything). When your brain has been infected with nonsense, Trump seems like a good idea. You might even think god sent him.

Which implies you have no integrity because you don't really know what it means. In fact, you can't even imagine having integrity, because the concept of living an honest life is the stuff of fairy tales in your addled world view. Religion is a morality costume you wear thinking people can't see through it, a delusional shortcut to respectability, but you don't really believe in it. How could you, when you live such a dishonest life?

Since supporting Trump requires dishonesty, only the idiotically religious can really pull it off. And since there are so many of them in this country, we have to wait for the asshole to die, which won't be the punishment he deserves, but it will be the relief America needs.

It's like America ____ it's pants, and half the country enjoys the warmth so much they can't even smell it anymore.

This kind of blatant and gross bigotry, wildly broad intolerance and deep seated fuming hatred of other american citizens/human beings has played a huge role in dividing this country to it's current unbridgeable position - More and more of this can only turn an already unbridgeable divide into a country that is destroyed beyond any hope of repair.

[_honorentheos]

It does prove the value of ginned up pseudo-scandals, though. There's always someone who is willing to equate actual scandals with fake ones and declare a pox upon both their houses.

I know this is your thing and see any call for not charging off in a partisan manner as misguided attempts at moderation. But the fact is the justice department is claiming the reported whistleblowing doesn't meet the standards that require the claim be presented to Congress. Sound fishy? Sure. But it isn't blatant obvious wrong doing akin to shooting someone in the street as you claim. It's clearly in the process of being investigated, by the media by attempts to get disclosure for Congress, etc.

Saying Barr deserves jail time at this juncture is just partisan over reach and frankly shows that certain behaviours on the part of Conservatives has eroded commitments to fundamental principles of democracy because it just isn't fair they won't play by the rules. That's your other thing, saying Democrats need to start playing dirty, right?

It's bad for the country to jump over due process or it's equivilent and form a mob demanding a political opponents head. It just is.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hey POOM

The real problem with holding Trump accountable is that his supporters are religious zealots (i. e. not that bright and willing to believe ____ anything). When your brain has been infected with nonsense, Trump seems like a good idea. You might even think god sent him.

Which implies you have no integrity because you don't really know what it means. In fact, you can't even imagine having integrity, because the concept of living an honest life is the stuff of fairy tales in your addled world view. Religion is a morality costume you wear thinking people can't see through it, a delusional shortcut to respectability, but you don't really believe in it. How could you, when you live such a dishonest life?

Since supporting Trump requires dishonesty, only the idiotically religious can really pull it off. And since there are so many of them in this country, we have to wait for the asshole to die, which won't be the punishment he deserves, but it will be the relief America needs.

It's like America ____ it's pants, and half the country enjoys the warmth so much they can't even smell it anymore.

This kind of blatant and gross bigotry, wildly broad intolerance and deep seated fuming hatred of other american citizens/human beings has played a huge role in dividing this country to it's current unbridgeable position - More and more of this can only turn an already unbridgeable divide into a country that is destroyed beyond any hope of repair.

Again. You can't see to find your voice when the Trump administration is making a mockery of your democratic and judicial institutions for personal profit, but goddamn if you aren't doing a triple gainer onto your swooning couch when someone bitches about the base that put them into power.

Jesus, Ceeboo. Get some perspective.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I know this is your thing and see any call for not charging off in a partisan manner as misguided attempts at moderation. But the fact is the justice department is claiming the reported whistleblowing doesn't meet the standards that require the claim be presented to Congress.

Well, if you can't trust Barr, then who can you trust?

Here's the fun thing, though. That's false. We already know the rationale they've given for that judgement is false. One might say, "lie." No further information needs to come out to know that is false. If basis for your condemnation of people criticizing Barr's illegal conduct is simply a misguided understanding of what they've asserted, then that's not a great look.

It's clearly in the process of being investigated, by the media by attempts to get disclosure for Congress, etc.

The issue under discussion is specifically the thing that prevents Congress from being able to investigate in the way you say needs to happen. It's a perfect self-contained loop. We have to wait for Congress to investigate this illegal obstruction of the investigation, which is currently not happening because of the illegal obstruction of the investigation.

That's your other thing, saying Democrats need to start playing dirty, right?

I think that's a misleading description of what I've said.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Doc

Again. You can't see to find your voice when the Trump administration is making a mockery of your democratic and judicial institutions for personal profit

I don't support Trump - In addition to other things, I think he has a serious ego problem and I think he has failed mightily in some of the very important and key roles as the President (Leadership, Uniting, etc)

but goddamn if you aren't doing a triple gainer onto your swooning couch when someone bitches about the base that put them into power.

"Bitching?"
That's because I think the "bitching" - as you say - in fantastically unreasonable, irrational, bigoted, intolerant and deeply destructive to all the people who live in this country.

Jesus, Ceeboo. Get some perspective.

I'll try but I'm curious to learn more about your perspective. Which parts of the above post did you find to be merely, as you conveniently labeled, "bitching?"

[_EAllusion]

This shouldn't have to be said, but...

The problem with the "lock her up" mantra for Hillary Clinton was that there was no evidence she did anything that warranted her being put in prison. Because of this, calls to jail her functioned as an assertion that political opponents should be jailed for being poltiical opponents, which itself is attack on the core of democracy. It undermines the ability to have political dissent and free and fair elections.

You don't need to think it is always wrong for political actors to face jail time to see this. It is the case that political actors do occasionally engage in conduct that does warrant them going to jail. Saying that they should be held accountable is not the same as calling on Clinton to be locked up.

Equating a desire for Clinton to go to jail with a desire for members of what effectively is a crime syndicate in Trump-world to go to jail is obnoxious.