And now for something completely different.

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Some brief remarks. I could probably write a book but I don't really want to spend time doing it.

honorentheos wrote:Call it good fortune or ill, I have associated with someone daily through work for over 10 years who is a stereotypical rightwing conservative evangelical anti-liberal, was in college in the era of Jimmy Carter and entered the work force in the Reagan era.

What I have gathered in conversations with him over the years is that Carter's failing was his inability to inspire people to chase prosperity. This associate talks derisively of Carter telling the nation to put on a sweater rather than turning up the thermostat, is practically gleeful describing Reagan having the solar panels removed from the White House that were installed under Carter, and worshipfully looking to Reagan as the true Christian president. Not because of his charity, but because he spoke of being special, of prosperity as an inevitable reward, for being born into a promise as Americans under God's singular gaze.


We did what our President told us to do, lowered the heat (68 degrees was the recommendation) and put on extra clothing. To this day, we still keep our heat low in the house even in winter. When 55mph became the national speed limit, we drove it.

I never once felt angry at Carter for those things. I felt like we were all in this together and that's what American's did--they pulled together.

Make no mistake, Christianity among many isn't about service or following the example of their God having taken the form of a homeless teacher and healer. They are in it for the prosperity promised for being a believer. I'd say John 6 describes the vast majority, and Carter isn't one of those who is just following because he'd eaten the bread and fish, and expected more. So many claiming to be a follower of Christ do so expecting that they will get even more fish and bread while others starve like the pack of hungry dogs chasing the butcher's cart, and this seems to be the spiritual motivation of the majority of EVs when their beliefs are looked at through their behavior. Sure, they'll volunteer at a food bank or help out a neighbor, send a check to support someone down on their luck, or send thoughts and prayers. But behind it all is the idea one is practically blasphemous if one views the pursuit of wealth and the expectation of prosperity as anything other than evidence of God's favor. Many people don't like the idea that their good works might not result in earthly rewards, and turn to preachers promising more than pie in the sky by-and-by. Liberals are doing the devil's work, taking from the rich prospered by God - as evidenced by their being prosperous - and given those godly given rewards to the slothful and undeserving as a way of undoing God's blessing the faithful. It's these same forces keeping the lower and middle classes down, too, and resisting God's ability to prosper their hard work and justly earned wealth through taxes and regulations that further work against God's word forcing the US away from it's protected status as a promised land and shining light on a hill. Carter claimed to be a Christian, but he was doing the devil's work according to this view of how politics and religion overlap in the US.


There's no doubt that Christian's can lean towards the material. We're human like everyone else is. I wasn't raised that way. I don't live that way. My idea is that whatever I have was supplied to me by God and whatever I have I should be content with it and take care of it. Be a good steward of whatever money we have as well. Whether I lived in a broken down home (and I have) or a fairly nice home (and I do) I would still take care of it. I did, I still do, and I would no matter where I lived or what possessions I owned because I see the material things and even my children as on loan to me from God, and it's my job to take care of my things and my people--and also the natural world that I inhabit.

So far as I am concerned, the so-called Prosperity Gospel movement (I know that's not what you're referring to but it's emergence comes from at least part of what you referred to) is an aberration of scripture. It's foretold in scripture and Christian's would do well to pay attention to the heads up.

Carter is a self professed Christian. He lives it out in front of us. And when I hear people talk about the prosperity of Christians I think it has nothing to do with money or materialism. Not even close.

In my eyes I see that Jimmy Carter is a prosperous Christian. Prosperity in Christianity is about building up the body of Christ. I am certain that he's done that by his example and his teaching. And that's what Christlike really means.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gunnar wrote:Yes. I hope Carter will be remembered in history more for his goodness and compassion than for what his opponents have unfairly said about him. And his work for Habitat for Humanity is far from the only positive thing that can be said about him. Check this out for starters: 10 Major Accomplishments of Jimmy Carter.

When I look at that list of accomplishments I see a president who, when faced with enormous challenge, learned from them and formulated constructive responses.

Trump is a de-constructor. He tears apart the room like a toddler in tantrum mode, even to the point of tearing apart the people in the room.

Carter is a builder in more ways than one and remains so to this day. Where Trump cheated his subcontractors, Carter has served as both general and subcontractor.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Former President Jimmy Carter Back To Building Homes One Day After Fall | NBC Nightly News Oct 7, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syGwRMfzQP8

And we have President Bone Spurs in the White House.

One of theses videos I linked to says that Jimmy Carter does not receive a federal pension because he didn't serve for 5 years.

Former President Jimmy Carter: "America will learn from its mistakes" August 18, 2018

At this time he and Rosalyn had built 4,000 houses in 14 different countries. Letterman is in this one. This is the one that mentions his lack of federal pension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0DOJD91_GA
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_honorentheos
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _honorentheos »

Until I left to serve a mission, my life experience was mostly limited to Utah and a brief exposure to people from around the country when I attended Army basic training and AIT. (Yes, I did that before serving a mission. It was not uncommon in Utah where people enlist in high school for the reserves, do their training in the year gap between graduating HS and being able to serve a mission back when the age was 19. Probably not as common now that the age for missionary service has been lowered to 18. It didn't seem usual to me until I kept having to explain the timeline to people. Anyway, I digress...)

I was fairly committed to the LDS faith and while going through my initial training my exposure to mostly other 18-20something year olds and nothing came out of that which radically challenged by belief that there was something special about Mormonism. A particularly hostile EV in AIT who had came to Utah to witness against Mormons unfortunately reinforced for me the idea that Christianity at large was in some form of apostacy. He'd come by to debate scripture with me, and in hindsight it would be embarrassing to see those exchanges now but at the time I found the seminary scriptures I had been taught were perfect for addressing them.

Being in the mission field was a very different experience. I met some of the absolutely most genuinely Christ-like people in a variety of faiths. A couple who were JW's exploded my mind and overturned everything I thought I knew about the world. There were others, including a man from either Thailand or Vietnam (I forget now) who was Buddhist and again, just one of the most genuinely good people I've been fortunate to spend some time around. On top of this, much of the adult membership of the LDS church in Switzerland and Germany turned out to be normal people with varying degrees of goodness and vice, and some were absolutely terrible people. My companion and I broke up a verbal fight between a branch president and a branch member who thought he should be the BP because he was a BYU grad and had lived in the US. They were literally yelling at one another, red in the face and looking like they were on the verge of violence. We had an investigator there that day...so yeah.

My takeaway from it all was to start viewing the LDS church as a vehicle for bringing people to Christ, but the people in that vehicle shouldn't be confused with the vehicle itself. It was a seed that took root and certainly left me open to eventually leaving it all behind because the leadership was not excluded from that separation.

Whatever a person's background, it's the person themselves that matters when looking someone in the eye and interacting with them. I wouldn't view my comments as my indictment of Christianity overall. I do think the voting behavior of the religious right is warped, to be sure, and for reasons that are tied to why they view Carter as a worse President than the guy currently occupying the position but there are reasons. I think the world is full of people who want the best for their children and families, want the world to be safe and provide opportunities for making things a bit better, and largely behave one-on-one better than they do anonymously are when talking about groups of others in a general way. That goes for the religious right as well. We live in complex, difficult times while having so much more of, well, MORE than ever before in human history while most of us are largely buffered from the worst of what life could offer and has offered so many people through history. I have good reason to believe that no matter how bad things are, my daughter will never huddle in a house being riddled with machine gun fire because a sniper shot at someone from the roof of her apartment. No matter what happens, I'll almost certainly not die of starvation. No one is likely to kick in my door, murder my family, rape my wife, and pillage my neighborhood, set it on fire, and set off for home to bring the spoils back to their families. I'm more than likely to suffer from boredom than pain on any given day, only lift things heavier than 20 lbs by choice because I have a desk job, and find living a night or two in a row in a portable fabric hut eating food I had to carry recreational. I mean, what's up with that?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Jersey Girl
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Oh there's a book recommend in this video. Going on my winter reading pile.

Jimmy Carter's White House Diary Sep 24, 2010

He critiques his own presidency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PUmPvRENc
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Am I crazy or is that Biden around 3:20-ish in that last video? Probably not, right?
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_canpakes
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote: the Obamas...

Good of you to mention them.

Image

As for the Carters:

Throughout their involvement with the Carter Work Project, President and Mrs. Carter have become tireless advocates, active fundraisers, and some of our best hands-on construction volunteers. Additionally, they have rallied thousands of volunteers and even celebrities, helping Habitat for Humanity to becoming internationally recognized for its work to build decent and affordable housing. Inspiring millions, President and Mrs. Carter have worked alongside 103,000 volunteers in 14 countries to build, renovate and repair 4,331 homes. They have also made quite an impression on thousands of Habitat homeowners and volunteers.

https://www.habitat.org/volunteer/build ... rk-project
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Gunnar »

honorentheos wrote:. . . Obama(?) never met a person where he wasn't sizing up the best way to stab them in the back for his own gain and take everything from them he could, to be sure.

Did you really mean to say "Obama" here, or did you really mean "Trump?"
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Gunnar »

huckelberry wrote:
Gunnar wrote:Yes. I hope Carter will be remembered in history more for his goodness and compassion than for what his opponents have unfairly said about him. And his work for Habitat for Humanity is far from the only positive thing that can be said about him. Check this out for starters: 10 Major Accomplishments of Jimmy Carter.

I have little doubt that Carter could have made much more of a positive difference had he been reelected for a second term with a more supportive congress. We might even have been well on the way to solving the problem of mitigating the worst affects of climate change by now! And I can't imagine that Carter would have handled the Mideast situation anywhere near as badly as the Republican administrations we have had since his Presidency did! I even think it may be likely that the 9/11 attack would never had occurred had the differences that Carter could have made in world diplomacy during a second term had been realized.


Gunnar, thanks for stating this. I certainly agree.

I'm pleased that you agree. It is clear to me that Carter had a much better informed and more accurate historical and, perhaps, even biblical perspective on the issues troubling the Middle East than did any of his Republican successors, at least, and, perhaps, even all of his successors, perhaps even including Obama. I think one of the biggest factors contributing to the trouble and violence there is unwillingness on the part of the major parties involved to study, acquire and understand the relevant historical perspective.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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Re: And now for something completely different.

Post by _Gunnar »

honorentheos wrote:What I have gathered in conversations with him over the years is that Carter's failing was his inability to inspire people to chase prosperity. This associate talks derisively of Carter telling the nation to put on a sweater rather than turning up the thermostat, is practically gleeful describing Reagan having the solar panels removed from the White House that were installed under Carter, and worshipfully looking to Reagan as the true Christian president. Not because of his charity, but because he spoke of being special, of prosperity as an inevitable reward, for being born into a promise as Americans under God's singular gaze.

I have great difficulty understanding why so-called "conservatives", especially religious conservatives, think there is something inherently weak, foolish or even unchristian about conserving resources and minimizing waste. The solar panels on the Whitehouse saved taxpayer money and resources, and certainly did not harm anyone. Removing them was definitely one of the most wrong-headed actions of Ronald Reagan. Profligacy is not a proper measure of prosperity, and is, in the long run, one of the surest ways to destroy real prosperity.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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