DCP:?????[lds] temples...polar opposite to extermination camps?????

[_kairos]

DCP is so out of touch!

The polar opposite to the Nazi extermination of life would be those people and institutions that saved/are saving the living who are vulnerable, through no fault of their own, and are targets of genocide- might I suggest Schindler, the religious in any denomination such as RC priests and nuns who saved and protected Jews; in our day relief services/organizations who act against genocide/"ethnic cleansing" in Rwanda and Bosnia for instance-actions that save lives not pretend rituals that the Morg somehow thinks souls are supposedly being given a second to get into Mormon heaven.

DCP's piece drips also with an underlying pride and boastfulness : "hey look at the Morg-aren't we great".

The DN was right to kill the piece. DCP was so upset he just had to post it on his "yes and no" blog. I would have been more impressed if he had just kept quiet, sucked it up and we would never have even known about it. Perhaps he was getting ahead of the game thinking some opponent would find out that he got slammed and he wanted as always to show he is on top of EVERYTHING!

The DN is wasting space every time a DCP article is printed imho!

k

[_I have a question]

The polar opposite to the Nazi extermination of life would be those people and institutions that saved/are saving the living who are vulnerable, through no fault of their own, and are targets of genocide- might I suggest Schindler, the religious in any denomination such as RC priests and nuns who saved and protected Jews; in our day relief services/organizations who act against genocide/"ethnic cleansing" in Rwanda and Bosnia for instance-actions that save lives not pretend rituals that the Morg somehow thinks souls are supposedly being given a second to get into Mormon heaven.

You are quite right.
The Nazi organisation was trying to eradicate diversity, to exterminate those not of the same belief so that society became one superior glorious race of people who all believed the same thing. The opposite of that is an organisation that promotes diversity and inclusion for all regardless of their religious beliefs. Mormon baptism for the dead is (supposedly) a mechanism for filtering out diversity so that there can be an eternal kingdom of people who all hold the same beliefs. Gay people were not welcomed in Nazi society, Gay people are not welcomed in Mormon Temples (or Chapels). I'd suggest that rather than being polar opposites, the Holocaust and Mormon Temples share some principal ideology.

I guess DCP must feel the spotlight of attention drifting off of him. That's usually when he posts something abhorrent to try and get back in the glare...His article is simply trolling for attention. I'm disappointed in myself for giving him that which he seeks.

[_Maksutov]

https://www.amazon.com/Moroni-Swastika- ... 0806146680

While Adolf Hitler’s National Socialist government was persecuting Jews and Jehovah’s Witnesses and driving forty-two small German religious sects underground, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continued to practice unhindered. How some fourteen thousand Mormons not only survived but thrived in Nazi Germany is a story little known, rarely told, and occasionally rewritten within the confines of the Church’s history—for good reason, as we see in David Conley Nelson’s Moroni and the Swastika. A page-turning historical narrative, this book is the first full account of how Mormons avoided Nazi persecution through skilled collaboration with Hitler’s regime, and then eschewed postwar shame by constructing an alternative history of wartime suffering and resistance.

The Twelfth Article of Faith and parts of the 134th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants function as Mormonism’s equivalent of the biblical admonition to “render unto Caesar,” a charge to cooperate with civil government, no matter how onerous doing so may be. Resurrecting this often-violated doctrinal edict, ecclesiastical leaders at the time developed a strategy that protected Mormons within Nazi Germany. Furthermore, as Nelson shows, many Mormon officials strove to fit into the Third Reich by exploiting commonalities with the Nazi state. German Mormons emphasized a mutual interest in genealogy and a passion for sports. They sent husbands into the Wehrmacht and sons into the Hitler Youth, and they prayed for a German victory when the war began. They also purged Jewish references from hymnals, lesson plans, and liturgical practices. One American mission president even wrote an article for the official Nazi Party newspaper, extolling parallels between Utah Mormon and German Nazi society. Nelson documents this collaboration, as well as subsequent efforts to suppress it by fashioning a new collective memory of ordinary German Mormons’ courage and travails during the war.

Recovering this inconvenient past, Moroni and the Swastika restores a complex and difficult chapter to the history of Nazi Germany and the Mormon Church in the twentieth century—and offers new insight into the construction of historical truth.

[_moksha]

Gay people were not welcomed in Nazi society, Gay people are not welcomed in Mormon Temples (or Chapels).

The end goal of the LDS Church would be to change their sexual orientation and have them be full tithe payers. Nazi's sent homosexuals to the gas chamber.

The editor at the Deseret News perhaps envisioned how the Jewish congregations in Utah would react to Dr. Peterson's article. I know Dr. Peterson would counter that it was not written for them, but the editor perhaps was looking at the totality of the audience and the overall effect of the submission.

[_I have a question]

Gay people were not welcomed in Nazi society, Gay people are not welcomed in Mormon Temples (or Chapels).

The end goal of the LDS Church would be to change their sexual orientation and have them be full tithe payers. Nazi's sent homosexuals to the gas chamber.

That’s not quite right. The end goal of the LDS Church is a society without gay people, the same as the Nazi’s end goal. Changing a gay persons sexual orientation, or eternal expulsion, is simply the Church’s way of achieving that. The Nazi’s were trying to rid their society of gay people for life, the Church is trying to eradicate them from Mormon society for eternity.

[_Doctor Scratch]

It's worth remembering that Dr. Peterson's close personal friend and biweekly co-author, William Hamblin, penned this passage, which is still freely available at the FAIR Mormon website:

“I get mad every time I think about those Kikes. The Kikes are so clannish; and they wear funny cloths. Those stupid Kikes always do what their Rabbis tell them. They think they should be obedient to God. What mindless Kikebots. They actually have 613 commandments; count ’em—six hundred and thirteen. This proves they’re a mind-control cult. You know, Kikes have committed murder and embezzled money. In fact, when a Kike commits murder, it’s because he’s a Kike. There is something about those Kikes that makes them violent. The Kikes are all rich, too. They control the money and politics of New York. Not just New York, they control Hollywood too, and want to control the politics of the entire country. Indeed, they are a threat to freedom and democracy. And their kosher rules are so-ooo stupid. They make me want to gag. Why shouldn’t I eat a cheeseburger if I want to? You can’t get a good ham sandwich in a Kike deli. I want a ham sandwich, and I’m not going to let those Kikes stop me from eating it. I sure hate those Kikes! They drive me nuts.”

The Mopologists have never shown any sign of understanding why this sort of this is problematic. I don't blame the DN for blocking Peterson's article.

[_Lemmie]

It's worth remembering that Dr. Peterson's close personal friend and biweekly co-author, William Hamblin, penned this passage, which is still freely available at the FAIR Mormon website:

“I get mad every time I think about those Kikes. The Kikes are so clannish; and they wear funny cloths. Those stupid Kikes always do what their Rabbis tell them. They think they should be obedient to God. What mindless Kikebots. They actually have 613 commandments; count ’em—six hundred and thirteen. This proves they’re a mind-control cult. You know, Kikes have committed murder and embezzled money. In fact, when a Kike commits murder, it’s because he’s a Kike. There is something about those Kikes that makes them violent. The Kikes are all rich, too. They control the money and politics of New York. Not just New York, they control Hollywood too, and want to control the politics of the entire country. Indeed, they are a threat to freedom and democracy. And their kosher rules are so-ooo stupid. They make me want to gag. Why shouldn’t I eat a cheeseburger if I want to? You can’t get a good ham sandwich in a Kike deli. I want a ham sandwich, and I’m not going to let those Kikes stop me from eating it. I sure hate those Kikes! They drive me nuts.”

The Mopologists have never shown any sign of understanding why this sort of this is problematic. I don't blame the DN for blocking Peterson's article.

Let me see if I have this straight. A mopologist goes to an ex-mormon recovery site where the stated guidelines, quoted by FAIRMORMON, are:

“This is not a debate board for Mormons to defend the faith,”

then he admits to:

” lurking on the “Recovery” board for a while,“

after which he attacks the Recovery site for not allowing mopologists to defend their faith?!!

What a nut. And the comparison of the words of recovering ex-Mormons to anti-Semitic language was one of the most tone-deaf screeds I’ve ever read. How offensive. No wonder that board booted his posts.

[_Symmachus]

Surely, there must be a restaurant that Peterson can find whose menu can offer up a tasty protest to the injustice of not having his column published. Rather, say, than the Lion House, which is owned by the parent company of the Deseret News, he could funnel $50 to Red Lobster, thus depriving the villains of any lucre.

Dean Robbers has brought out just how silly this is. My first thought was: why is Peterson singling out the destruction of European Jewry? Why not Rwanda or Srebrenica, or closer to his field of expertise, the destruction of Baghdad in 1258, when upwards of a million people were killed by the Mongols? Are they not worth remembering (if having a stranger recite a name without knowing anything about the person who held the name constitutes "remembering").

Of course, that leads one to wider question of why the Church has had what to appears outsiders a fixation on baptizing murdered Jews. If it is difficult for the Church to impose its agreements on the retired membership who do genealogy and temple work to pass the time before they pass, I understand that. It's hard get people to follow complicated rules. I also think the Church's intentions are quite as far from anti-Semitism as you could get. Indeed, there is a bizarre form of philo-Semitism in all this. I see this even in Peterson's column. For the reason that Peterson chooses to focus on the murder of Jews, I suspect, rather than some other group stems precisely from the desire to have Mormonism's brief period of minor persecution validated. Mormonism has absolutely no connection to the traditions of Christian martyrology, and it has only its initial founder and a few others few Mormons even remembers that it can claim as martyrs for the faith, and yet people like Peterson and Hamblin insist that Mormonism is a persecuted faith—because it is the true faith, of course.

Yet not one serious person who looks at the evidence could see anything like religious persecution in the case of the Mormons. The troubles in Missouri were part of a frontier land war, and the 19th century battles with the federal government were about sovereignty and law. The government couldn't have cared less what Mormons believed or who they were.

There was greater and more intense persecution of Protestants in England between 1553 and 1558 than Mormons have faced in their entire history spread across a few continents—but of course few Mormons care or even know about this, since, as I say, they keep themselves apart from the tradition that produced Foxe's Book of Martyrs. It was more difficult to be an Anglican in southern New England during the 17th century than it ever was for someone to be a Mormon anywhere. Being a Catholic in England was to be a genuinely persecuted minority for nearly two hundred years from Cromwell on. And yet not one of these groups would trade pain for pain to be a Jew in Europe at any time before WWII. It hardly needs saying that no one would trade their persecution for the Jews' industrial slaughter during the war, least of all Mormons, despite their attempts to extract theological capital from it.

In the case of the Mormon genealogists, I am sure they have the best intentions but it is perhaps worth asking: just where do those records of names come from? By what morbid research and deathly process did such a rich store of genealogical delights come together? I suspect most of them have just never thought about it. But maybe Peterson unpublished column would help ease any discomfort that would come from knowing more about the processes and facts which make their enterprise possible.

It is clear enough what Hamblin was trying to do in that cringeful and embarrassing attempt at making a point. Mormons aren't Jews, and ex-Mormons who don't like the Church aren't vicious anti-Semites. They are just ill-mannered and bad-tempered. But his attempt is an excellent, if clumsy, example of the weird philo-Semitism I'm talking about whereby Jewish slaughter is used in defense of Mormonism. Surely he is not an anti-Semite, but this perverse philo-Semitism ends up perverting the results of his intentions and making him look like one.

I think Peterson is making that same attempt, though perhaps unintentionally, at linking up Jewish slaughter with Mormon desire for validated martyrdom. It is not as blunt as Hamblin, but one must read this unpublished piece in light of what he has published. Doing so will remind us that this is a defense of the temple worship—a justification against the injustice of persecution. For what I read on Sic et Non is not a report or a thesis but rather an apologetic response without being made explicitly as such. It is as if he is answering some attack on Mormon temple rituals, perhaps even the claim that Mormon posthumous baptism of murdered Jews is anti-Semitic: "on the contrary," he seems to be saying, "this ritual is the means by which those victims are remembered! Attacking this temple ritual is attacking those victims." Attacking the memorialization of European Jews slaughtered by the Nazis is unquestionably anti-Semitism, and thus the underlying logic becomes that attacking the Mormon temple ritual is anti-Semitic, at once more elegant yet more extreme than Hamblin's typically ham-fisted apologetic.

If I'm right, then once again Jewish slaughter is used in defense of Mormonism. It is ultimately a twisted form of philo-Semitism, for it's not the admiration of Jews or their culture but a perverse idolization of their suffering.

That's how it reads to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

[_kairos]

Remember when DCP posted the photo of the lynching of the three black men a while back.
I just wonder whether he sought to get names of those men , find out about their families and history and then get the temple work done for them. i will bet my first born that thought NEVER crossed his twisted mind.

k

[_I have a question]

Remember when DCP posted the photo of the lynching of the three black men a while back.
I just wonder whether he sought to get names of those men , find out about their families and history and then get the temple work done for them. i will bet my first born that thought NEVER crossed his twisted mind.

k

DCP believes that Judaism and faithful Jews, will have no place in the Celestial Kingdom.