Math is hard for at least three liberals

[_EAllusion]

I'm claiming that cpaps aren't ventilators in the context of the story and to portray them as such is misleading. I've developed protocols to teach intellectual disabled adults to use cpaps, and I never even heard of anyone referring to a cpap/bipap as a ventilator machine. It sure as heck isn't what is meant by "ventilator" in the context of the national shortage of ventilators crisis. Musk was initially arrogantly reacting to people talking about that specific crisis - via Twitter - which apparently caused him to buy and donate a bunch of cpaps and take a victory lap.

Of all the stories you could dog CNN for, you decided to go for one they got right because you fell for an equivocation?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

He literally stated he delivered something like 100 ventilators. Just do some cursory google searches and and read his Twitter feed and look at statements made my hospital administrators and, stuff. Like. Just go for it. I know it hurts you more than anything to not be the most correct on any given topic. Like. It damned pains you to the core, but just go for it man. I promise you won’t have a psychological break.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanica ... entilators

"Back in March, California Gov. Gavin Newsom said Musk had already made good on his promise.

"I told you a few days ago that he was likely to have 1,000 ventilators this week," Newsom said at a press conference, adding the ventilators arrived in Los Angeles and that Musk was working with the hospital association to get the equipment out. "It was a heroic effort.""

Ha. CNN's 'strategic communications director' is doubling down:

https://Twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1250828039010705408

This is awesome.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

The governor of California and lower level administration officials literally state that he did not do that. They're even saying that today, April 16th. It's perfectly legitimate for journalists to report that fact. In the very material you cite to defend him, including from Musk himself, it tries to equivocate ventilators with cpaps that were delivered, so it makes sense to address that misleading point. It's also worth noting this beahvior seems to confirm the intial story that instead of vents, Musk sent cpaps/bipaps . The rest of the evidence presented, both by you, and by the google-machine, is awfully ambiguous and could easily be misleading. Happily, this could just as easily be cleared up with some hard evidence, but it doesn't seem to have materialized. 1000 ventilators is a lot of vents. Meanwhile, CNN (and a bunch of other news sources) aren't screwing up their job for reporting what credible sources are saying. The upshot is if contradictory evidence materializes of a better quality than what you can find from Musk-stans on carblogs, the story can be updated to reflect that.

Take your own advice.

[_EAllusion]

[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1221847 time=1587081592 user_id=3779]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanica ... entilators

"Back in March, California Gov. Gavin Newsom said Musk had already made good on his promise.

"I told you a few days ago that he was likely to have 1,000 ventilators this week," Newsom said at a press conference, adding the ventilators arrived in Los Angeles and that Musk was working with the hospital association to get the equipment out. "It was a heroic effort.""

Ha. CNN's 'strategic communications director' is doubling down:

https://Twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1250828039010705408

This is awesome.

- Doc
[/quote]Gavin Newsom said they were on their way to hospitals in late March. Then he said - and I can't stress this enough - as recently as *today* that they never arrived. Like a few hours ago. In the same day you are writing this post. If you are a time traveler from March, I apologize, but you should update your priors to take into account the fact that Newsom is saying this didn't happen. Since you are aware of the existence of people who can admit they are wrong, it would seem that Newsom has admitted he was wrong.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

What kind of ventilators are you thinking the hospitals requested? What kind of ventilator is a legitimate ventilator to be used to treat patients with the virus?

Just so we're on the same page:

ven·ti·la·tor
noun
1. an appliance or aperture for ventilating a room or other space.

2. MEDICINE an appliance for artificial respiration; a respirator.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Here's another hospital that received ventilators:

https://Twitter.com/feriademadrid/statu ... 5567456258

Easily searchable on Twitter, which CNN could've done. Instead they ran with one newspaper's story. *rolling eyes emoji*

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1221851 time=1587082170 user_id=3779]
What kind of ventilators are you thinking the hospitals requested? What kind of ventilator is a legitimate ventilator to be used to treat patients with the virus?

Just so we're on the same page:

ven·ti·la·tor
noun
1. an appliance or aperture for ventilating a room or other space.

2. MEDICINE an appliance for artificial respiration; a respirator.

- Doc
[/quote]
So you appear to be back to conflating cpaps/bipaps with what ventilators machines mean in this context. That's helpful, because then you might understand how those communications with hospitals Musk pointed to might be referring to cpap/bipap shipments rather than ventilators. Because of that potential for being misleading, it's prudent to get better evidence. That in response for that evidence Musk's crew is refusing to comment to the press doesn't inspire confidence.

The crisis of ventilator shortages that Musk was supposedly addressing is not a shortage of cpaps or bipaps. Cpaps are more plentiful, though you can never have too much medical equipment I suppose, but are not what hospitals are desperate for. That's not what the national story is about. Ventilator machines are a much more sophisticated piece of technology that takes over breathing for a person. Cpaps are just positive airway pressure systems. Bipaps are a little more sophisticated, but still relatively simple. Neither can take over a person's breathing. If you mod a machine to do that, you've built a totally different machine. The thing that we're all worried hospitals might run out of, leading to having let people die, are ventilator machines. When Musk was arrogantly interacting with people on Twitter about vents and decided he'll get some, that was a conversation about ventilator machines, not cpaps. If all he got were cpaps, that's a major screwup. Cpaps might even be contraindicated in COVID-19 treatment because they aerosolize the virus without doing much to help.

The initial story on Musk was that he didn't send ventilators; rather, he sent bipaps/cpaps. If the reply to that is, "You liars. He totally sent ventiators. Just look at all these cpaps he sent!" then I think you've badly missed the point.

[_EAllusion]

[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1221853 time=1587082380 user_id=3779]
Here's another hospital that received ventilators:

https://Twitter.com/feriademadrid/statu ... 5567456258

Easily searchable on Twitter, which CNN could've done. Instead they ran with one newspaper's story. *rolling eyes emoji*

- Doc
[/quote]Oh my god. What do you think that's a picture of? That appears to be a bipap Doc.

[Guest]

Are CPAPs and BiPAPs not considered to be a sort of ventilator? I would imagine anything that helps with respiration would be a respirator or ventilator (using my definition above). Some doctors believe C19 should be treated like hypoxemia (altitude sickness) and not like ARDS (respiratory disease). Perhaps being clear on the differences found here can move the conversation forward:

https://aeroflowinc.com/need-ventilator ... ipap-cpap/

What didn't Tesla deliver that CNN couldn't have verified? Did he not deliver the 1255 FDA-approved ResMed, Philips & Medtronic ventilators? Are you suggesting that despite this:

"Newsom’s office now says Musk was supposed to deliver them directly to hospitals, but none have received any.

“The Administration is communicating every day with hospitals across the state about their ventilator supply and to date we have not heard of any hospital system that has received a ventilator directly from Tesla or Musk,” a spokesperson for the governor’s Office of Emergency Services told CNN. The news was first reported by the Sacramento Bee.

That led to a string of responses from Musk, who retweeted photos of hospital employees posing in front of the shipments and a screenshot of an email thread between a Tesla employee and public health official in L.A. County."

So, the Governor's office said Tesla was supposed to deliver them directly to hospitals, Tesla delivered *something* to hospitals with tweets, data, and photos as evidence, and now you're suggesting something something CNN accurately reported the facts.

Okaaaaay....

- Doc