The Constitution, Freedom of Expression, Public Health

[_MeDotOrg]

What are the limits to freedom of expression? Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes is known for simply stating "the right to swing your fist while walking down the street ends where the other man's nose begins".

How does that pertain to the debate about whether wearing a mask is a violation of freedom of expression under the First Amendment? While swinging your fist and not wearing a mask are 2 different behaviors, they both can result in physical harm. Not wearing a mask can result is something far more damaging than a bloody nose.

While that may seem fairly open and shut, it is of course more complicated. For any individual it is easy to plot the course from the end of your fist to the other man's nose. In Covid analogy, there is not a 100% predictable outcome. Not wearing a mask is more akin to furiously windmilling your arms while walking down the street. It may or may not result in a metaphorical bloody nose of infection. A negative outcome is far less certain, but the ramifications of infection are far more injurious to the public than a single bloody nose.

It is one of the big issues of the Pandemic, and indeed of any large public health crisis. How do we evaluate the rights of the individual during a pandemic? Do we assign the same individual rights during a Pandemic? As a culture we value the individual, but as a species we value the herd.

[_ajax18]

How do we evaluate the rights of the individual during a pandemic?

Some people faint from wearing a mask all day at work. Then they find themselves on unpaid leave. I think people should wear masks. But then again, if you're a person that can't afford to catch Covid, maybe you shouldn't be out or maybe risking death to get out and work is just a part of life. Our illnesses and infirmities are ultimately our own to bear. We're all going to get exposed to Covid eventually and some of us aren't going to survive it. I'm not sure how much you can really blame that on John Doe going back to work or stubborn Bob who won't wear the mask.

[_subgenius]

California says its cool if i knowingly conceal and then transmit HIV/AIDS to a sexual partner... even its via their nose.
So....

[_EAllusion]

California says its cool if i knowingly conceal and then transmit HIV/AIDS to a sexual partner... even its via their nose.
So....

Are you saying you agree with this?

[_Chap]

California says its cool if i knowingly conceal and then transmit HIV/AIDS to a sexual partner... even its via their nose.
So....

Are you saying you agree with this?

Why bother asking? It's just an attempt to divert to an anti-California dig schtick from the good old pre-virus times. Happy days!

Meanwhile in the real world ... back to viruses and mask wearing, for or against.

[_Chap]

How do we evaluate the rights of the individual during a pandemic?

... I think people should wear masks. ,,,

Good. So does pretty well anyone else who has made a scientific study of the matter - meaning a study that actually tries to reach decisions based on verifiable real-world data about the measurable effects of mask use. Basically, wearing masks in public has two important effects:

1. It considerably reduces the chance that the person wearing the mask will transmit any viral load they may carry - and let us recall, many infected people don't know they are infected.

2. Each person who wears a mask helps to normalise mask-wearing, and encourage other citizens to do likewise, which benefits all of us - see point (1).

Look, it's this way. We are under sustained attack from an invisible enemy. We know what measures will help protect us. It's like:

Radio operator: Lieutenant! We are getting reports of enemy fighters closing on our position.

Lieutenant: OK - into the trenches - NOW!

Not, be it noted "Well, I dunno. Maybe getting strafed by the enemy is part of being in the army. I mean, your survival is really your responsibility. It's hard to know what to do. Maybe get into the trenches, maybe not ...."

[_Themis]

Are you saying you agree with this?

Why bother asking? It's just an attempt to divert to an anti-California dig schtick from the good old pre-virus times. Happy days!

Meanwhile in the real world ... back to viruses and mask wearing, for or against.

I usually ignore Subby's trolling and dishonesty, but I think EA was asking a rhetorical question. Subby tends to give away his position all the time when he is trying not to. Here we see he is giving away his belief that government should have the right to control some of our freedoms. I suspect subby and people like Ajax think a law making people with aids have to tell sexually partners is a good law and should be enforced. It's fine for them because they don't think it's an area that affects them. In fact there are many laws that do control their behavior and actions that they are fine with because they are used to it or it fits with their beliefs. Some of those laws restrict their behaviors a lot more then having to wear a mask in some public places, but because it is something new or being presented by people they think are evil they tend to be against it as a rule. It's sad to watch some people fight so hard for that mole hill when we know it will save lives and allow us to be less restrictive on people's movements and keep the economy running.

[_Icarus]

Supreme Court just said states are free to use public funding for religious private schools.

The dumbing down of America continues under this dumpster fire of an administration.

[_Some Schmo]

It seems to me that not wearing a mask in an indoor public setting should be in the same category as drunk driving. Sure, you can drive drunk and not kill anyone, but it's seriously illegal for a reason.

[_Chap]

California says its cool if i knowingly conceal and then transmit HIV/AIDS to a sexual partner... even its via their nose.
So....

Are you saying you agree with this?

Why bother asking? It's just an attempt to divert to an anti-California dig schtick from the good old pre-virus times. Happy days!

Meanwhile in the real world ... back to viruses and mask wearing, for or against.

I usually ignore Subby's trolling and dishonesty, but I think EAllusion was asking a rhetorical question.

Yup, I'm sure that EAllusion was asking a rhetorical question. While he was quite entitled to do that, I am pretty sure that with a person like subgenius, any kind of subtlety or indirectness is wasted effort. Just ignore him, or call out his diversionary crap directly for what it is.