Biden vs. Trump

[Guest]

Did you vote for Mitt Romney in 2012?

Did you?

If you did, would you have preferred him over Trump in 2016 if you'd had your "druthers?"

One more question. Is there anything Trump could possibly do or fail to do that would make him lose your vote and support in the coming election?

[_Jersey Girl]

I couldn't leave my name on the voting rolls that way. I figure if I happen to come down with Covid and it dicks me away, then that'll have to suffice as my 2020 vote.

I hear ya. I generally think of myself as an independent, but I agree with both right and left ideals, depending on the issue.

Trump and his ilk aren't even in that conversation. They are on another planet, pretending that destroying the country is the way to save it. They've sold their souls to the devil. You can't reason with unreasonable people, so I don't try. I just point my finger and say, you guys suck. Lying isn't the same as arguing, but it's all they've got.

You said it right there...depending on the issue. The whole two-party system has mystified me throughout my life. I've always seen it as nothing but a game, a team sport created by males and when I take a hard look at the posts on this forum or comments I see in the news, it does nothing but confirm that view in my mind.

Also, if you think back to Carlin's "Owners of the Country" commentary, it's crystal clear to me and anyone else who pays attention that it takes money and tons of ass kissing for money, for anyone to be elected to the Presidency. I'm not saying that all candidates are without conscience or behave ethically, and serve the whole of the American public. I'm just saying that with Trump it's glaringly obvious that money talks and for some, it is the Golden ticket to achieving power and status, and so they bust their asses trying to maintain the status that motivates them and the profit that follows it.

I do see Biden differently than that. I believe he knows and understands the position of President, I believe he knows and understands how to get things done in Washington D.C. to the overall benefit to the American public because I believe he has the ability to relate, see the big picture, and foresee the results of his decisions. I believe he's wanted to achieve that position for at least the latter part of his political career and I believe him when he says that what he saw in Charlotte compelled him to run in this election. More than that, I believe he will behave ethically with regard to the Oath of Office.

I see him as the complete opposite of Trump.

I'm not very politically savvy or politically minded. I tend to look at situations through a psychological and sociological lens. What motivates this person and what is the impact to society? But even I can see the blatant chaos and wreckage that Trump has made of this country and our relationships with foreign allies.

And speaking as a Christian believer (and I know I have said this before) the Bible tells us we will know people by their fruits and that God is not the author of confusion. A Christian need only to look at the fruits that Trump has produced and the state of our society to be convinced that Trump himself isn't led or fueled by anything but his own self interest or that he's been bullsh-itting his way through his Presidency this whole entire time and he's not even well skilled at it.

I'm so disgusted with everything that has happened in 2020 I can't even tell you. I start to pray at night and then my mind goes wild and then I can't sleep at all until I literally wear myself out thinking. I hope it'll be okay following the election but I expect that if Trump loses, he'll throw the mother of all fits and that there could still be unrest in the country long after January, in fact, I am concerned that if Biden is slated to take office in January, Trump will pull out all the stops in an effort to prevent it.

I have no way of knowing what lies ahead. I simply try to go about my business, separate myself from it as needed, while I wait it out. That's one of the reasons you see me coming up with random topics here in Paradise--just to get away from it all.

Now I wish I had kept a journal all this year so I wouldn't be bothering you guys with all the stuff that goes on in my head. ;-)

[_Jersey Girl]

Let me ask you this. Why do you want to know that, ajax?

Did you vote for Mitt Romney in 2012?

Let me ask you this. Why do you want to know that, ajax?

[_ajax18]

Did you?

Yes

Ifyou did, would you have preferred him over Trump in 2016 if you'd had your "druthers?"

Nope

ne more question. Is there anything Trump could possibly do or fail to do that would make him lose your vote and support in the coming election?

Nope

[_ajax18]

Let me ask you this. Why do you want to know that, ajax?

How people who vote across party lines vote intetests me. Only my voting record in the primaries says much about my views and what influences and persuades me.

[_Brackite]

Did Romney or McCain win more independents than Trump? Why did Trump win when these two Republican candidates were thoroughly beaten?

Romney got a higher percentage of the vote nationwide than Trump.

2012 Romney - 47.2% - Link
2016 Trump --- 46.1% - Link

Reagan and Romney got a higher percentage of Independents nationwide than Trump.

1980 Reagan - 56%
1984 Reagan - 64%
2008 McCain -- 44%
2012 Romney - 50%
2016 Trump – 48%

Florida is the biggest battleground state. Let's compare the percentage of Independents that Romney and Trump got from that state.

2012 Romney - 47%
2016 Trump --- 47%

Trump won Florida mainly because he got 64% of the White vote in that state. Romney got 61% of the White vote from Florida.

Trump was able to win Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin by razor-thin margins mainly due to lower Black turnout and higher White turnout from the 2012 election.

I will give Trump about a 50% chance of winning the Electoral College during this election. I believe that Florida will go to Trump again. And I believe that Trump is going to try to cheat to win this Presidential election.

[Guest]

I couldn't leave my name on the voting rolls that way. I figure if I happen to come down with Covid and it dicks me away, then that'll have to suffice as my 2020 vote.

I hear ya. I generally think of myself as an independent, but I agree with both right and left ideals, depending on the issue.

Trump and his ilk aren't even in that conversation. They are on another planet, pretending that destroying the country is the way to save it. They've sold their souls to the devil. You can't reason with unreasonable people, so I don't try. I just point my finger and say, you guys suck. Lying isn't the same as arguing, but it's all they've got.

I'm sure that both you and I would agree that neither conservatives nor liberals have a monopoly on either truth or error. I hate the whole idea of rigidly labeling people and ideas as either liberal or conservative. There will always be old, proven ideas that have stood the test of time and ought to be conserved, as well as old ideas that ought to be re-evaluated and replaced by something that works better, or better reflects changing reality. Either clinging to or rejecting something simply because some choose to label it "conservative" is every bit as foolish as either uncritically embracing or rejecting something simply because some choose to label it "liberal."

[_Themis]

Why did Trump win when these two Republican candidates were thoroughly beaten?

Trump had help from the Russians as well as Comey. Hillary was not a popular candidate. Trump would have done worse then either Romney or McCain had he been the candidate against Obama.

[_subgenius]

Let me ask you this. Why do you want to know that, ajax?

How people who vote across party lines vote intetests me. Only my voting record in the primaries says much about my views and what influences and persuades me.

"moderates" interest you?

[_Jersey Girl]

Let me ask you this. Why do you want to know that, ajax?

How people who vote across party lines vote intetests me. Only my voting record in the primaries says much about my views and what influences and persuades me.

Well, I need to tell you that I find the question itself highly offensive. Let me explain. I consider my right to vote via secret ballot to be also a sacred right and that it's really between myself and my God. My own husband doesn't typically know who I voted for so I wouldn't publicly share my voting choices in all those elections that you wanted to know about.

But in the interest of fairness, I actually have stated who I voted for in 2012 in at least one post so I will address that as best as I can but I don't think my answer is going to feel satisfying or even interesting to you. I spent 2011-2014/15 literally keeping a trauma victim alive. Those years are somewhat of a blur to me because the sustained high alert also caused a certain level of trauma in me so there are huge gaps in my memory for most of those years. I guess the brain remembers what it has to in a situation like that. That said, I have shared here that I voted for Obama in 2012. All I recall is that I had the impression that Romney was a weak candidate though I honestly don't remember why. I can't name a particular issue or statement he made that year, that made me think that. I couldn't watch any of the campaign news and I am sure I didn't watch all of the debates though I may have seen some of it but nothing really stands out in my mind. So, I just don't recall it, ajax.

Now, if you asked me what I think of Romney currently. I will tell you that I believe he is a man of courage and good character having spoken his conscience without compromise, regarding Trump's Presidency. It takes a lot of guts to do that and I admire him for it. He's not as weak as I took him to be all those years ago.