Watch The Closer....

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honorentheos
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Re: Watch The Closer....

Post by honorentheos »

Some Schmo wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:34 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:44 am
I watched it. It was ok, not his best set. The controversy makes for views I guess. His point isn't bad, really. I don't think any of the reporting on it I've seen got it right, either, including in this thread.
I believe he even makes the point in that special that the people complaining about his specials haven't actually listened to him. It became a prediction for this last one.

At some point, people will need to recognize the difference between discrimination and unrelatability. I don't discriminate against trans folks, but I can't relate to where they are coming from (and I don't need to understand so long as I treat them like everyone else and advocate for the same).
Good points.

Truth is I didn't really think it was a particularly funny set but he seems to have adopted that style now where he talks longer than a joke setup justifies and then drops punchlines. It can seem like someone who is funny monologuing at a party more than a stand up act.

At some level I think much of the issue around these controversies is all parties involved are dealing with legit grievances, including ones aimed at the other parties. But the power dynamics get in the way of humanizing each party to the other. Chappelle is someone with power and influence whose words and decisions as an individual are more impactful than most people. He's privileged. And the voices in the trans community and those supporting them that rise up in protest about a harm felt at something he said take power through numbers and not being shouted down. Using Dave's own words, in-between it all it seems to me that everyone involved wants to be understood as having legitimate human experiences. They just need to recognize how different these experiences are from their own without needing to punch to feel legitimized. Punching being Chappelle's bread and butter, well, things are just going to be what they are. That's his human experience on display, using a platform he earned to point out other kinds of privilege against Blacks in America have been destructive and oppressive. And he is taking aim at what he sees as hypocrisy in a group he doesn't completely relate to because their experience looks more like that of the people he sees as privileged. To the trans community and their supporters, Chappelle looks more like the people they see as attacking or oppressing them from a position of privilege. It's kind of mess. But that's what authentic human experiences actually are.
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Gadianton
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Re: Watch The Closer....

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But I know plenty of Republicans who agree with that who don't support Joe Biden or want to see the nation go further left, either.
None of the right-wing people I know have tried to tell me the election was stolen, or indicated that they believe such a thing. Even on this forum, Ajax is on the record of admitting Trump lost, but long after the fact, he's sometimes tried to troll by saying the opposite. Faqs might have said the election is stolen? did he? Not even subs directly claimed it was stolen.

Now, my right-wing friend did very clearly express that he hoped the Supreme Court would overturn it because he didn't want Biden to win.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Watch The Closer....

Post by Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:11 am
Good points.

Truth is I didn't really think it was a particularly funny set but he seems to have adopted that style now where he talks longer than a joke setup justifies and then drops punchlines. It can seem like someone who is funny monologuing at a party more than a stand up act.
Yeah, I only really laughed once. It was mostly intermittent chuckles.
At some level I think much of the issue around these controversies is all parties involved are dealing with legit grievances, including ones aimed at the other parties. But the power dynamics get in the way of humanizing each party to the other....
I do agree that there seems to be no end to the amount of outrage people are willing to show, and that certain reactions are over the top.

I got a definite feeling that he was driving hard, almost trying to offend and daring the world to "cancel" him, and yet, honestly, he didn't really say anything I thought was discriminatory (not in any serious way, anyway).

I guess, given my history, I just can't watch a comedy show and take what's said seriously. It's a trap. If someone looks for deeper meaning from a comic, they've gone to the wrong place. They tell jokes. I personally cringe at how many people seem to take George Carlin's words as gospel, for instance.

And I am way past tired of famous people whining about "cancel culture." It's rare that people are forever cancelled if they just own their crap.
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honorentheos
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Re: Watch The Closer....

Post by honorentheos »

Very much agree. I think of comedy as a necessary mirror for society that can be unflinching in where it finds flaws or inconsistencies that feed a joke. But that's about as deep as it really goes. It's good for calling out problems but not providing meaningful serious solutions.

I'm very supportive of comedy as a form of free speech necessary for functional democracy. And for push back against it. I'm beyond expecting clarity to show up in some single source of knowledge or virtue. Ya gots to dig for those tiny diamonds.
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Xenophon
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Re: Watch The Closer....

Post by Xenophon »

So I finally got around to watching this.

I agree with the sentiment that this isn't his funniest work although it is still amusing. I definitely don't see it as more controversial than his previous stuff.

I think Dave is a great example for us though. He highlights just how tough intersectionality is. We get into these zero sum games where it is difficult to lift a marginalized group up without sometimes stepping on the toes of others. He also demonstrates just how hard it can be for us to talk about problems from anything other than our own perspective.

One bit of criticism I did find quite valid is Dave's blindness to how his jokes do impact other. One of his stated reasons for walking away from the table with the Chappelle Show was that racists were unironically using his jokes to mock minorities. He saw that his attempts to make humor for "his people" were being used against those people and he wanted to stop participating in that. His inability to now see how he is providing similar fuel to transphobic folks is hard to watch.

That said, I've heard a lot of talk about his special potentially inspiring violence against trans people but I'm really confused at what specifically is being referenced. I heard several jokes that I'm sure were deeply offensive but I'm struggling to make the leap to violent rhetoric. I spent some time trying to pin down the specifics but they alluded me and I'm genuinely curious if someone can elaborate on that.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Watch The Closer....

Post by Some Schmo »

Xenophon wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:24 pm
That said, I've heard a lot of talk about his special potentially inspiring violence against trans people but I'm really confused at what specifically is being referenced. I heard several jokes that I'm sure were deeply offensive but I'm struggling to make the leap to violent rhetoric. I spent some time trying to pin down the specifics but they alluded me and I'm genuinely curious if someone can elaborate on that.
Yeah, I've been wondering about that myself. As I mentioned before, I agree with his assessment that the people complaining about him haven't really listened to what he's been saying.
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