Thread for discussing climate change

[Chap]

I'm holding up a mirror and showing you your hypocrisy.

Nope. You are simply trying to divert attention from the essential measures that governments need to take to stop global heating getting worse and worse, and talk instead about what some individual on this board does or does not do. If the Indian government builds more and more coal fired power stations, all my biking, walking, and tofu eating is irrelevant in comparison.

[Xenophon]

Maybe I'm crazy but didn't that drop in 2020 come with some government restrictions/assistance along with huge changes to the work environment to facilitate that drop? Or did we all just collectively decide to not travel that week?

Your attempt to show our hypocrisy is actually an amazing example of how it will require governments and society to make drastic shifts as a whole in order to achieve real change.

[MeDotOrg]

I've been surfing and fishing on the same beach for 40 years and nothing has changed so far.

So climate change is not happening because it hasn't changed your surfing spot yet? Relax folks, Alanticmike's surfing spot is okay?

There is a deliberate wearing of blinders when you only look at your beach for climate change.

People have smoked tobacco for 50 years without getting lung cancer. That may be anecdotal information that cigarette smoking does not cause lung cancer, but it is a long way from describing the dangers of cigarette smoking.

[Gunnar]

If I stopped driving to work, taking hot showers, heating my home, eating meat, eating vegetables, etc., it would not change the temperature of the atmosphere. The notion that, unless I become a hermit to no effect whatsoever, I can't propose measures that can have an effect, is just silly. I don't know why you think that's any kind of effective argument – it just makes you sound ignorant.

I'm perfectly willing to have measures that will be effective in getting us to zero emissions affect me the same as they will affect everyone else, so I'm being completely consistent. I'm just not into satisfy your demand for ineffective virtue signaling.

Yes. It is hard to imagine a sillier or more ignorant argument than Atlantic Mike's argument against doing anything about mitigating climate change. It's almost like arguing that if we can't immediately come up with a sure fire way to cure all cancer with 100% certainly, we should make no attempt to treat any cancers at all.

[Atlanticmike]

Maybe I'm crazy but didn't that drop in 2020 come with some government restrictions/assistance along with huge changes to the work environment to facilitate that drop? Or did we all just collectively decide to not travel that week?

Your attempt to show our hypocrisy is actually an amazing example of how it will require governments and society to make drastic shifts as a whole in order to achieve real change.

Bullxxxt! You don't need government to restrict your actions to make fundamental changes in your life that would lesson the effects of climate change. You're just unwilling to accept the fact that we each have a responsibility if there's going to be an actual change. Real climate change starts at home.

One easy example. I like breast, a lot. So let's follow the life of a chicken. A commercially raised chicken is hatched in a hatchery which takes a tremendous amount of electricity to operate. Then it's put on a gas guzzling truck an transported to a grow out. While at the grow out, it's there for around 45 days, it will take a tremendous amount of electricity to raise the chicken to a commercial weight. Then it's put on a gas-guzzling truck and transported to a slaughter house. The slaughter house also takes a tremendous amount of electricity to operate and after slaughter, the chicken it's put on a gas-guzzling truck and sent to the supermarket where a tremendous amount of electricity is used to keep it refrigerated until you jump in your gas guzzling vehicle, drive to the supermarket where the supermarket is still using a tremendous amount of electricity so you can walk in under the bright lights, walk to a refrigerated cabinet and pick up the chicken, then jump back in your gas guzzling vehicle and drive home. All that energy/CO2 so you can eat a delicious chicken! Why? Why not raise your own flock of chickens and eliminate all the energy needed to raise/transport chicken? Are you telling me you need government to hold your silky soft little hand to effect change? Do you have a good answer?

[Xenophon]

Sorry didn't realize we were at this part now. Carry on.

[Atlanticmike]

1. Did you drive a vehicle to work, if so, why? You could've walked.
2. Did you take a hot shower, why? You don't need to run a water heater to take a shower?
3. Did you run your HVAC yesterday, today? Why? It hurts the planet.
4. How bout meat consumption? Do you raise your own meat? This morning factories all over the world opened and turned on electricity so the could slaughter meat for people. Those workers had to drive to work in gas guzzling cars. The processed meat is then put in diesel burning tractor trailers and driven 100s if not 1000s of miles because the people reading this are to lazy to raise and slaughter their own meat.
5. Same for vegetables! Do you grow enough produce to feed your family?
6. Last but not least! Have you ever tried calling All Gore to ask him if he could sake all his houses and down grade to ONE small house for him and Elizabeth. If not, why? Shouldn't he practice what he preaches?

If I stopped driving to work, taking hot showers, heating my home, eating meat, eating vegetables, etc., it would not change the temperature of the atmosphere. The notion that, unless I become a hermit to no effect whatsoever, I can't propose measures that can have an effect, is just silly. I don't know why you think that's any kind of effective argument – it just makes you sound ignorant.

I'm perfectly willing to have measures that will be effective in getting us to zero emissions affect me the same as they will affect everyone else, so I'm being completely consistent. I'm just not into satisfy your demand for ineffective virtue signaling.

I didn't say you should stop going to work. I said stop driving a car and fxxxing up the planet. I never said stop taking a shower. I said stop taking a hot shower so you don't fxxx up the planet by heating water with either electricity or gas. I never said stop heating your home. Why did you do it in the last couple days like I asked? I never said stop eating meat or vegetables. I ask why you didn't raise your own meat and vegetables instead of buying them at a grocery store. You see!! People like you, chap and Gunner will read and learn all about climate change, but you're never willing to make REAL changes because you're hypocrites. You spend hours reading and understanding climate change when you could be spending that time riding a bike instead of driving or raising your own meat instead of buying it from the store. You see! I'm a man of action, I practice what I preach! You're a man of inaction, so you "learn" about climate change so you seem smart and knowledgeable to your friends and somehow in your mind your supposed knowledge helps you feel justified with your inaction.

You ever heard of the 3Ds? There's the Dreamers, the Debaters and the Doers. When it comes to climate change you're a debater! Which is pretty much useless. I'm a doer! I make change while you study it.

[canpakes]

Why not raise your own flock of chickens and eliminate all the energy needed to raise/transport chicken?

On-site location of some things - like solar energy - can work out in the long run. Chickens, maybe not.

Unless chickens drop from the sky in your neighborhood, young chicks are still being trucked into your local Tractor Supply store for you to purchase. Energy and resources goes into moving and caring for them.

Then, you’re going to need to build a coop for them, and fortify your yard against critters that will eat them. This requires building materials and the energy to transport them to your neighborhood, as well as the embodied energy required to hrow and harvest those materials.

Your chickens will require heat and possibly light, if you don’t live in a super-mild climate area. Small coops are generally less energy efficient than larger structures housing more chickens.

Even though chickens are pretty happy scratching and eating most any food waste that you can toss, they’ll still require supplemental feed to stay healthy. There’s another energy expenditure required to truck that down to your local feed outlet, and for you to pick up and store.

You pitch all of this as an alternative to buying chickens at the store (where you already have to go to purchase groceries anyway), but the economics and energy savings of mass production in dedicated facilities, combined with the energy savings associated with single-source facilities and cross-docking/logistics with delivery mean that mass-scale home production is not necessarily more energy efficient.

And that’s even before you get to the problem of most folks being unable to house chickens on their property anyway, either from lack of space, no yard, neighborhood zoning, etc.

You’ll want to think through these ‘solutions’ more carefully.

[Cultellus]

What you type, and what is read, and what is understood - these things are not always related. What is important, Atlanticmike, is that you are a fascist. So what you meant can only be what a non-fascist wants it to mean.

I know how to make you not a fascist though, Atlanticmike. I will do it.

Atlanticmike, you are a idiot, I am not. Don't be a fascist.

See, can you feel the fascism going away? It works, right.

I feel so much lighter!! Thank you! Where have you been all my life?

Pretty cool, right?

Do you need help not being a Trumpster? Or a right wing friend?

[Atlanticmike]

Why not raise your own flock of chickens and eliminate all the energy needed to raise/transport chicken?

On-site location of some things - like solar energy - can work out in the long run. Chickens, maybe not.

Unless chickens drop from the sky in your neighborhood, young chicks are still being trucked into your local Tractor Supply store for you to purchase. Energy and resources goes into moving and caring for them.

Then, you’re going to need to build a coop for them, and fortify your yard against critters that will eat them. This requires building materials and the energy to transport them to your neighborhood, as well as the embodied energy required to hrow and harvest those materials.

Your chickens will require heat and possibly light, if you don’t live in a super-mild climate area. Small coops are generally less energy efficient than larger structures housing more chickens.

Even though chickens are pretty happy scratching and eating most any food waste that you can toss, they’ll still require supplemental feed to stay healthy. There’s another energy expenditure required to truck that down to your local feed outlet, and for you to pick up and store.

You pitch all of this as an alternative to buying chickens at the store (where you already have to go to purchase groceries anyway), but the economics and energy savings of mass production in dedicated facilities, combined with the energy savings associated with single-source facilities and cross-docking/logistics with delivery mean that mass-scale home production is not necessarily more energy efficient.

And that’s even before you get to the problem of most folks being unable to house chickens on their property anyway, either from lack of space, no yard, neighborhood zoning, etc.

You’ll want to think through these ‘solutions’ more carefully.

Oh Lord!! Do you think people who raise chickens go to tractor supply to buy them. Did your parents teach you the about birds and the bees? You understand chickens can fxxx in a back yard, correct? Just kidding. I haven't bought a chicken in quite a while because I have roosters . My chicken/quail feed comes out of a silo down the street. We mix our feed because chicken feed is notorious for growing mold. We also grow fodder for our rabbits. I can tell you're a city boy, stop making excuses. If you want help raising meet I suggest quail. I'll help if you have questions.