The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

[Marcus]

He is definitely a Christian conservative who at one time had flirted with leftest ideology and saw it for what it was. He’s a bit more complex than you’re making him out to be. The fact that he is a Christian conservative, however, will most likely discourage you from reading the book I’ve linked to.

I know and love a few Christian conservatives. They're not like this guy. Sampling his wiki entry:

After the 2020 presidential election, Metaxas endorsed Donald Trump's claim that the election was tainted by voter fraud, predicting on Twitter: "Trump will be inaugurated. For the high crimes of trying to throw a U.S. presidential election, many will go to jail." Metaxas also told Trump on Metaxas's radio show that "Jesus is with us in this fight" to overturn the 2020 election. "I'd be happy to die in this fight," Metaxas added.[40][41]

In 2021, amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Metaxas told his followers, "Don't get the vaccine."[42]

He definitely doesn’t run around with your crowd. I don’t expect you’ll read Is Atheism Dead.

Not if my luck holds out.

He’s not the simple minded hick you would like to make him out to be.

Nah, I have words other than 'simple minded hick' for the type of guy who will punch an unarmed man in the back of the head and run.

Me too. Even the next sentences immediately after the quote mg posted without attribution point out more of these issues:

At one point, he was best known for founding Socrates in the City, a series of conversations with writers and thinkers like New Testament Wright, Francis Collins, Lauren Winner and Sir John Polkinghorne, where he developed a reputation for thoughtful commentary on faith and public life.

Then he discovered Donald Trump.

Since then, the once-genial Christian author who penned “Lyle the Kindly Viking” has become a full-throated supporter of the president and critic of the liberal forces he believes pose a threat to American culture.

His latest book, “Donald Builds the Wall,” features a blond-headed caveman dressed in an American flag saving his people from the forces of evil by building a wall to keep out swamp creatures and a “caravan of troublemakers.”

https://religionnews.com/2019/09/27/eri ... f-america/

the small print is the part mg cherry picked, the rest is context he left out.

Maybe this is why mg thinks this:

...Lots of stuff around here is taken out of context or cherry picked....

[honorentheos]

Figures. MG has outed himself as a rightwing crusader who had exposed his motives in the past as a true believer in American neoconservativism. He's stopped attempting to discuss subjects, apparently having decided those debating him here are working his positions over due to rhetoric or cunning rather than due to the weakness of his position. So now we get the treat of his showing up periodically to offer uncompensated promotions for whatever he is currently ingesting and feels would do the work of winning over open-minded people from the side of evil liberal atheism.

The book he's shilling for sounds like the latest book of a type that's been a mainstay of Christian bookstore fare. That being the likes of The Case for Christ, claiming to be serious works from former skeptics or atheists overwhelmed by the evidence for the Christian God's existence when they finally took the time to move past stubborn or sinful rejection and listen. In reality they are a catalogue of strawmen portrayals of atheist positions matched up with shallowly supported pro-Christian evidence. There are inevitably sections that use archaeology to draw a line between the existence of a place mentioned in the Bible and the miraculous events associated with it as if all that needs proved is the existence of Nineveh for Jonah to have been a real person who was swallowed by a large fish and spoke with God. They usually have sections arguing that atheists believe in things that science doesn't have full answers for so it's really a type of anti-faith relying on "science of the gaps". "How did life begin? You can't say for sure? Then you are choosing to reject the alternative view of the Bible on faith! No, it doesn't matter that science has plenty to say about the majority of content in Genesis because you have a gap you fill with faith!"

They are trash written precisely for folks like MG who need assured their faith is built on a solid foundation and non-belief is only being held up by clever people who are sowing evil in the world.because the truth is just so gosh dang clear if one is willing to look for it.

I suppose gone are the days when MG would actually present and defend a position. Oh well.

[Paloma]

I came across this statement, and thought it rather insightful:

"People don't leave Christianity because they stop believing in the teachings of Jesus. People leave the Christian Church because they believe in the teachings of Jesus so much, they can't stomach being part of an institution that claims to be about that and clearly isn't." -Nadia Bolz-Weber

I find this true and sad. It expresses much the same sentiment as this well-known Mahatma Gandhi quote: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

The history of Christianity, in my view, shows a devastating transition from Christian faith in God becoming less a simple grass roots movement to be followed (even, in a sense, a "choose your own adventure" while following Jesus who models and teaches the parameters of inclusiveness, love, grace and freedom) than an institution which is to be defended at all cost. It became less an organism and more an organization. It became less a Presence to be loved and followed than a Power structure to be defended by all means ... hence the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, religious wars, etc.

I think that any Christian church that claims to be the 'only' true church ... that claims to hold and safeguard the "right way" to follow Jesus (did you see a recent Midnight Mormons podcast where Brad, Kwaku and Cardon exulted in 'owning' Jesus!) ... is a modern adaptation of defending its own version of the Christian faith at all costs.

I don't hold Mormonism responsible for this kind of exclusivism and its defense more than any other church. The history of Christianity is replete with examples.

I find it ironic that the Mormon apologists Daniel Peterson and Louis Midgley fall squarely into this "defend by any means and at all costs the one and only way to apprehend and enjoy the full benefits of Christian faith".

It's ironic because:

Midgely has repeatedly said that he doesn't see Christianity as an 'ism' or an 'ity' but rather as the ongoing story of God and his people. But Midgley is certainly in the business of defending an organization rather than a loving God who is more than able to represent and defend himself without viewing the 'other' as the enemy.

Both Peterson and Midgley claim to hold 'almost' universalist positions where everyone receives grace and mercy in the end and become part of God's family. They just don't seem to exhibit this inclusive, gracious and loving stance here on earth. They may claim this generosity of spirit in word (and perhaps even in their own reflections on themselves), but the proof is in the pudding.

[MG 2.0]

I suppose gone are the days when MG would actually present and defend a position. Oh well.

It’s a bit difficult to prove God’s existence to a non believer. One can only present reasons to believe. Matataxas’s book presents a number of fine tuning arguments that I think are interesting. Proof of God? No. Reasons to take God’s existence as a reasonable alternative to disbelief? Yes.

I had listened to a Dennis Prager podcast weeks ago where Metaxas was a guest. His political views were not discussed. Just the new book and some of the arguments for God, etc. I hadn’t heard of him before. Yes, I’m enjoying the book and believe it brings to the forefront some of the current ‘proofs’ for God.

I’ve read Ehrman and the like also. Simply put, I think the arguments for God and a Savior outweigh arguments against.

By the way, I’m an Independent. I have problems with Trump. I didn’t vote for him in 2016. I don’t think I could vote for him if he runs again. I’m not far right by any stretch. I am discouraged in the direction the country has taken since Biden took office though.

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

By the way, I’m an Independent. I have problems with Trump. I didn’t vote for him in 2016. I don’t think I could vote for him if he runs again. I’m not far right by any stretch. I am discouraged in the direction the country has taken since Biden took office though.

Does your view of the world include the belief liberal and progressive politics as they exist currently in the US are supportive of evil? Not necessarily that liberals are evil, but that the policies and aims would corrupt America and move the US further from the God you believe in if unrestrained? Or are they just differing ways of approaching problems through politics, no more good or evil than any political position you might support?

[MG 2.0]

I have a reading suggestion for you.

https://ericmetaxas.com/books/is-atheism-dead/

Eric Metaxas. You mean this guy:

Metaxas, the former VeggieTales writer, made headlines over the summer after he punched a protester and then ran away after attending Trump’s speech at the Republican National Convention.

https://religionnews.com/2020/11/30/eri ... n-triumph/

Once again Eric delivers a first-rate read. As he said in a recent Q&A session, this is a book geared to thinkers and readers—there is nothing political in the book. The focus is on faith, science and archaeology.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/566 ... heism-dead

If you’re concerned with his politics that needn’t keep you from reading his book. Up to the point that I’ve read so far it’s pretty much all science. Even so, I doubt anyone here would even pick up the book since Metaxas doesn’t hold to the political views of most of those here. At least that’s my guess.

Some additional information. on the ‘punch’:

https://religionnews.com/2020/09/01/eri ... trump-rnc/

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

I doubt anyone here would even pick up the book since Metaxas doesn’t hold to the political views of most of those here. At least that’s my guess.

You should change the guess while you can. No one is going to read it because you haven't presented a reason to actually make the investment of time. The synopsis sounds like it's one of countless books aimed at folks like you who need regular reassurance that all the science against the traditional literal interpretation of the Judeo-Christian God is countered by better science supporting your view.

When YOU chose to read it, it was after more exposure to the content than you've shared here, and you are the primary audience for the book.

So, MG, from what you've read, what's an argument in it that you hadn't read or heard of before that knocked your socks off? Or one presented in a way you feel really framed the strength of belief as well founded?

(Also, your silence on my other question? Loud and clear.)

[honorentheos]

Some additional information. on the ‘punch’:

https://religionnews.com/2020/09/01/eri ... trump-rnc/

Regards,
MG

Yeah. It's about his politics because his politics, like yours, are based on a belief you are fighting a war against evil.

“But I tell you, there’s a part of me that was not sorry to see Eric punch the guy, though it was apparently just a glancing blow,” Dreher wrote.

“You just get so sick of these people and their filthy mouths, and their berserk screaming at people. You get sick of the pornification of the public square, and the degeneration of civil standards. Sometimes you have to use violence to preserve order.”

[PseudoPaul]

There is yet to be shown from what I've seen that there is good reason to believe there's God in the first place. There is no map if you have no good basis for your belief. You are wandering around with no map at all but, for some reason, pretending your blank sheet is a map, imagining your own path.

I have a reading suggestion for you.

https://ericmetaxas.com/books/is-atheism-dead/

I find your disbelief in God unreasonable.

If there is a God I think we might safely assume He has given us a roadmap back to His presence.

I’m not going to argue ‘God’ with you. You have your reasons for disbelief and I have my reasons for belief. Let’s leave it at that.

If you are a seeker, however, you may want to read Metaxas’s book. I’m enjoying it.

Regards,
MG

Metaxis is a wooden fundamentalist and a misogynist - or he was 10 years ago. I heard he's gotten much much worse since then.

[MG 2.0]

(Also, your silence on my other question? Loud and clear.)

I didn’t answer because I’m not interested in getting into politics…and spin-offs…on this discussion board.

Loud and clear?

Regards,
MG