Have you been blessed by leaving the church?

[Chap]

These stories seem to me to illustrate the conclusion of some research into the sociology of religious allegiance that I read a while back (excuse me for not giving an original reference).

Basically, the conclusion was that a good way for a religion to maximise the loyalty of its adherents was to maximise the intensity, inconvenience and sheer pig-headed unreasonableness of the demands it made on them and the consequent disruption to every aspect of their lives.

Fortunately (as we can see from the accounts of leaving the CoJCoLDS told by a number of posters) this does not seem to work for everybody. But unfortunately it seems to work quite well for some ...

[Chap]

I consider the books that we have in the Bible to be the word of God as far as they are translated correctly.

All of them. I also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God given to us in our day.

The thing with the books of the Old and New Testament is that we do actually have the texts of those in the original languages, and the scholarly apparatus to deal with the occasional variants between versions of those texts. We can therefore check that they were 'translated correctly' in any version in a modern language such as English. I have an affection for the King James translation, since I was brought up on it and still enjoy its orotundity of language. But so far as being 'translated correctly' goes, while it was a good effort for the early 17th century, the KJV is well is behind the level of modern scholarship, both textual and linguistic. I wonder why certain religious groups (including Mormons, I think) continue to use it, since in a religious context the meaning of the words must surely be a paramount consideration?

But ... umm ... if I may make so bold, how do you know that the text of the Book of Mormon was translated correctly? You know, what with us not having the original text and all.

Bump for MG, particularly the bolded part.

If we are to make provisos about the reliability of the books of the Bible in translation, where we can check whether they were translated correctly, why does this not apply to the Book of Mormon, which is a translation from originals that we do not possess?

Somehow I don't think that MG is ever going to show up to answer this little query. Sad.

[malkie]

Bump for MG, particularly the bolded part.

If we are to make provisos about the reliability of the books of the Bible in translation, where we can check whether they were translated correctly, why does this not apply to the Book of Mormon, which is a translation from originals that we do not possess?

Somehow I don't think that MG is ever going to show up to answer this little query. Sad.

Journal of Discourses 2:293-294
“Before this was offered to the world, the Lord confirmed it by opening the heavens in broad day light, and sending down an holy angel, who descended in the presence of four individuals, three besides Mr. Smith, and the angel took the plates, and turned them over leaf after leaf, while, at the same time, the voice of the Lord out of the heavens told them it had been translated correctly, commanding them to send forth their testimony to all nations, kingdoms, tongues, and people.”

What more could you ask for, Chap?

[Chap]

If we are to make provisos about the reliability of the books of the Bible in translation, where we can check whether they were translated correctly, why does this not apply to the Book of Mormon, which is a translation from originals that we do not possess?

Somehow I don't think that MG is ever going to show up to answer this little query. Sad.

Journal of Discourses 2:293-294
“Before this was offered to the world, the Lord confirmed it by opening the heavens in broad day light, and sending down an holy angel, who descended in the presence of four individuals, three besides Mr. Smith, and the angel took the plates, and turned them over leaf after leaf, while, at the same time, the voice of the Lord out of the heavens told them it had been translated correctly, commanding them to send forth their testimony to all nations, kingdoms, tongues, and people.”

What more could you ask for, Chap?

Yeah, but how do we know the angel was translated correctly?

To be serious, the Orson Pratt statement, delivered long after the Book of Mormon was first offered for sale in Canada, shows that people were already asking the same question that I am asking. And given that there was no satisfactory answer, they had to bring in an angel to settle matters.

[Doctor Steuss]

[...] I will never (again) have to make a choice between Church, and my family/life. My dad, who was finally free to fully enjoy family and retirement, is now unable to be afforded that.

Last weekend, my son and I made plans with my mom and dad to go over this past Saturday and play some board games together. They had to cancel because of a meeting that both my mom and dad had to attend, and another that my dad had to attend later. Fortunately, we were able to do it on Sunday, as it was Stake Conference, and my son and I were able to reschedule a pottery painting gig we had scored on Groupon (and I didn't have any church callings that I would have to sacrifice time with my family for).

My dad has only been in the bishopric for a week, and already had two (that I know of) things he's had to cancel with his children and grandchildren because of his new calling.

[Marcus]

[...] I will never (again) have to make a choice between Church, and my family/life. My dad, who was finally free to fully enjoy family and retirement, is now unable to be afforded that.

Last weekend, my son and I made plans with my mom and dad to go over this past Saturday and play some board games together. They had to cancel because of a meeting that both my mom and dad had to attend, and another that my dad had to attend later. Fortunately, we were able to do it on Sunday, as it was Stake Conference, and my son and I were able to reschedule a pottery painting gig we had scored on Groupon (and I didn't have any church callings that I would have to sacrifice time with my family for).

My dad has only been in the bishopric for a week, and already had two (that I know of) things he's had to cancel with his children and grandchildren because of his new calling.

That is sad. I like that you are keeping track, though, because at some point in the future, if your dad's like mine, he might say something like.. he missed very few family events while he was serving. Your documentation shows otherwise.

[IHAQ]

[...] I will never (again) have to make a choice between Church, and my family/life. My dad, who was finally free to fully enjoy family and retirement, is now unable to be afforded that.

Last weekend, my son and I made plans with my mom and dad to go over this past Saturday and play some board games together. They had to cancel because of a meeting that both my mom and dad had to attend, and another that my dad had to attend later. Fortunately, we were able to do it on Sunday, as it was Stake Conference, and my son and I were able to reschedule a pottery painting gig we had scored on Groupon (and I didn't have any church callings that I would have to sacrifice time with my family for).

My dad has only been in the bishopric for a week, and already had two (that I know of) things he's had to cancel with his children and grandchildren because of his new calling.

You're such a top bloke. Your dad doesn’t realise what he’s missing.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Last weekend, my son and I made plans with my mom and dad to go over this past Saturday and play some board games together. They had to cancel because of a meeting that both my mom and dad had to attend, and another that my dad had to attend later. Fortunately, we were able to do it on Sunday, as it was Stake Conference, and my son and I were able to reschedule a pottery painting gig we had scored on Groupon (and I didn't have any church callings that I would have to sacrifice time with my family for).

My dad has only been in the bishopric for a week, and already had two (that I know of) things he's had to cancel with his children and grandchildren because of his new calling.

You're such a top bloke. Your dad doesn’t realise what he’s missing.

Agreed. Kinda hurts to read the account.

- Doc

[Doctor Steuss]

You're such a top bloke. Your dad doesn’t realise what he’s missing.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of my dad. He sincerely loves his kids and grandkids. I'm 41 years old, live 15 minutes away from him, and I still get a Valentine's card from him in the mail every year. My son gets one from him too for Valentine's Day, Halloween, Birthday, Christmas, and Easter. I can pretty much guarantee that the other 12 grandkids do as well. My mom once commented to me that she won't go to the store with him when he's getting cards for everyone, because he will sit there forever reading all of the cards to find just the right ones for each person. (Just to give one of countless anecdotes about him)

I think that's one of the things that makes this all so extra sad to me. I'm sure that with each and every thing he has to choose the church over his family, it will make his heart sink, and he'll blame himself for not seeing a way to find the time, or to have the energy. But, you don't refuse a calling in Mormonism, because it comes through inspiration.