Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

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K Graham
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by K Graham »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:29 pm
Someone can tell me if I’m off, but I think this was a pretty much open and shut case. This is what I got after spending an hour or two sifting through the intertubes:

1. AA didn’t commit a felony. Trespassing isn’t a felony.

2. AA committed zero crimes in the presence of the three dummies.

3. The three amigos had no right or cause to initiate a citizens arrest. I don’t think they witnessed the trespassing.

4. They had no right to chase the kid around the neighborhood for 5 mins. That’s a long time to be chased by guys with guns. AA had to be terrified.

5. AA ran away, for 5 mins, before being cornered by the dummies.

6. AA wasn’t armed.

7. AA wasn’t carrying a weapon of any kind.

8. AA was stupid for trying to grab the son’s gun, but the dummies were even more stupid for bringing the gun to bear to begin with. I believe AA panicked, rightly so after being chased by some armed bubbas in a truck.

9. The guy who recorded the whole thing was guilty of ‘murder by association’, which I don’t really understand, but that’s the law in GA.

There are lessons to be learned from this, but few will.

- Doc
Imagine if he was armed with a knife.
Res Ipsa
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:29 pm
Someone can tell me if I’m off, but I think this was a pretty much open and shut case. This is what I got after spending an hour or two sifting through the intertubes:

1. AA didn’t commit a felony. Trespassing isn’t a felony.

2. AA committed zero crimes in the presence of the three dummies.

3. The three amigos had no right or cause to initiate a citizens arrest. I don’t think they witnessed the trespassing.

4. They had no right to chase the kid around the neighborhood for 5 mins. That’s a long time to be chased by guys with guns. AA had to be terrified.

5. AA ran away, for 5 mins, before being cornered by the dummies.

6. AA wasn’t armed.

7. AA wasn’t carrying a weapon of any kind.

8. AA was stupid for trying to grab the son’s gun, but the dummies were even more stupid for bringing the gun to bear to begin with. I believe AA panicked, rightly so after being chased by some armed bubbas in a truck.

9. The guy who recorded the whole thing was guilty of ‘murder by association’, which I don’t really understand, but that’s the law in GA.

There are lessons to be learned from this, but few will.

- Doc
Yep, pretty easy. The "citizen's arrest" argument was concocted after the fact. They didn't witness a crime. And they testified that they never told Aubrey they were performing a citizen's arrest. The scandal here is the state dragging its feet about prosecuting a former LEO in a clear case of murder.
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K Graham
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by K Graham »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:03 pm
The scandal here is the state dragging its feet about prosecuting a former LEO in a clear case of murder.
This. And given the racial slur "ni**er" was used, they should be charged with a hate crime.
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by Res Ipsa »

K Graham wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:10 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:03 pm
The scandal here is the state dragging its feet about prosecuting a former LEO in a clear case of murder.
This. And given the racial slur "ni**er" was used, they should be charged with a hate crime.
I have no idea. Is there a hate crime law in that state? Is racial motivation included in the sentencing factors? Different states have different laws. I don't have sufficient information to second guess the prosecutor on that issue.
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MeDotOrg
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by MeDotOrg »

Here's a weird fact of my life:

My father liked breaking into houses that were under construction. He would take me along with him because I could shimmy through an open bathroom window. Once in the bathroom, I would let my father through the front door. He would walk around and look at the floor plans. I would play with the intercom and collect the slugs from electrical boxes.

This is one of those things where I never got an explanation of my father's behavior. He never stole anything. In his career, he was very ambitious. I think he looked at houses and imagined the next step up.

All this occurred in the western San Fernando Valley in the wilds of Encino in the 1950's, when housing developments sprouted like mushrooms. If the police came, I have no doubt my father would sweet talk his way out of the situation.

A little different in Georgia in the 21st Century. Breaking into houses while white was probably safer than jogging while black.
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canpakes
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by canpakes »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:28 pm
Here’s a still of the “boots”:

Image

I think you’re probably more accurate. I’m looking at other stills from the fight and those seem more consistent with sneakers.

- Doc

I’m thinking that some portion of the shadow forward of his position relative to our POV is creating an illusion, including the suggestion of a distinct collar, and strap. The poor resolution of the camera sort of blobs that shadow together with his leg.
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Gadianton
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by Gadianton »

This whole video is incriminating but I marked it at the spot where the old guy expresses his outrage over video of Ahmaud going into the construction multiple times.

https://youtu.be/JhzNQVTNDzk?t=176

people check out new constructions all the time even though it's technically trespassing. Used to do it as a kid, bikes and all.
This is one of those things where I never got an explanation of my father's behavior. He never stole anything. In his career, he was very ambitious. I think he looked at houses and imagined the next step up.
My right-wing friend, a former builder, does this sometimes. He got yelled at once by neighbors when he was out of state in a community he'd never been to before wondering around a new construction. He likes seeing how others do things and making his comments about work quality and code etc.
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by Chap »

I am grateful to DrC for his summary of the situation.

Mr Arbery was a person running in the public road not far from where he lived, unarmed and not engaged in any activity that reasonable people could interpret as a threat. But he was pursued by armed men who eventually forced him to stop, menaced him with weapons, and then shot him dead. The three men involved in his pursuit and killing were rightly convicted by the majority white jury.

The pleasant thing about this thread is that nobody on this board appears to take exception to the verdict reached. That is a marked contrast to the bitterness of the controversy surrounding the Rittenhouse verdict.

Might we explore the implications of this situation a little further, however? Consider these two hypotheticals:

A. Suppose that in the struggle after his pursuers had stopped him and got out of their truck with their weapons, despite his efforts to escape them by running away, the unarmed Mr Arbery's subsequent attempt to wrest the shotgun from one of his pursuers had not led to his own death when the weapon was discharged, but to the death of one of his armed pursuers. Would Mr Arbery then have been able to make a case against a homicide charge on the basis that his actions were self-defence?

B. What if Mr Arbery, perhaps aware of the dangers of running on the roads in a white neighbourhood while black, had carried a weapon with him when he went out running? If, after trying to escape his armed pursuers (as he in fact did), he had shot one of them dead with his weapon when they approached him with their weapons, would he then have been able to make a case against a homicide charge on the basis that his actions were self-defence? Or would he have had to wait for them to shoot at him first before having the right to defend himself by shooting back, assuming the shot fired by his pursuers did not kill or disable him?

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:29 pm
Someone can tell me if I’m off, but I think this was a pretty much open and shut case. This is what I got after spending an hour or two sifting through the intertubes:

1. AA didn’t commit a felony. Trespassing isn’t a felony.

2. AA committed zero crimes in the presence of the three dummies.

3. The three amigos had no right or cause to initiate a citizens arrest. I don’t think they witnessed the trespassing.

4. They had no right to chase the kid around the neighborhood for 5 mins. That’s a long time to be chased by guys with guns. AA had to be terrified.

5. AA ran away, for 5 mins, before being cornered by the dummies.

6. AA wasn’t armed.

7. AA wasn’t carrying a weapon of any kind.

8. AA was stupid for trying to grab the son’s gun, but the dummies were even more stupid for bringing the gun to bear to begin with. I believe AA panicked, rightly so after being chased by some armed bubbas in a truck.

9. The guy who recorded the whole thing was guilty of ‘murder by association’, which I don’t really understand, but that’s the law in GA.

There are lessons to be learned from this, but few will.

- Doc
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Moksha
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by Moksha »

The motion blur could have saved them if the defense had only said, "If the boot don't fit you must acquit".
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Marcus
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Re: Ahmaud Arbery killers all convicted

Post by Marcus »

Chap wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:55 am
I am grateful to DrC for his summary of the situation.
me too. Thanks, doc.
There are lessons to be learned from this, but few will.

- Doc
Sadly.
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