John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

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Shulem
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John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Shulem »

There is a new interview that was released on Wednesday, about an hour long with Gordon interviewing Gee about the Book of Abraham. The video is available only to special prescribers so it's not generally available. Gee just got back from Egypt.

I'll be brief and to the point. Two points in the interview irked me:

1) Gee comments on how some of the hieroglyphs were perfectly cut or dissected from the papyrus and placed in the KEP side registers. He mentions that they did a better job than some of his students could have done. He acted like it was rather miraculous that they knew exactly how to cut and place the characters. I immediately started to think about the awful job done to the hieroglyphs that were transferred from other papyri into the Hypocephalus, those of a different script and upside down. But Gee says nothing about that. He only praises what he thinks serves his cause but those things that do the opposite are not mentioned.

2) Gee tells us that we can't know for sure who authored the Explanations of the Facsimiles. But there is only one person who could have authored them and that is the ordained TRANSLATOR of the Church, Joseph Smith. Nobody else can present revelation and scripture to the entire Church except the President.

John Gee in my opinion is not a very good person. I would not want to spend time with him. And, I don't think he would want to spend time with me. So the feeling is mutual.

That's all I have to say.

:evil:

PS. Gee said he is open to the Catalyst Theory as a fallback, second choice.
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Moksha
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:09 pm
And, I don't think he would want to spend time with me.
He might change his mind if he saw you on a Backyard Professor podcast (speaking either directly to the camera or perhaps behind an Anubis avatar).

Just a thought.
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Shulem
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:28 pm
Shulem wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:09 pm
And, I don't think he would want to spend time with me.
He might change his mind if he saw you on a Backyard Professor podcast (speaking either directly to the camera or perhaps behind an Anubis avatar).

Just a thought.

John Gee would not last 5 minutes in a debate with me over the Book of Abraham. I would devastate his points instantly and control the conversation in such a startling and shocking way that he would squirm in his seat, wring his hands, and with a desperate and distressed face try to figure out how to get out of the horrible mess he got himself into. My God, when I think about how I would cut through and brutally manhandle him it makes me feel a wee bit cruel. I can feel the energy building and charging up just thinking about it. Look out!

I don't know about doing podcasts. I don't have the inclination. I enjoyed having two fairly long phone conversations this morning with RFM. We talked for about an hour about the Book of Abraham among other things.

RFM needs to go up and read my Celestial Threads. He's been very busy as of late.

I'm tickled pink that the “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head” has well over 10,000 views! Somebody is reading that thread other than just me.

I really wish that readers would pick up on the The First Vision thread because my understanding in connecting Smith's admission of how he came to learn about the plurality of Gods completely negates his original First Vision account which he himself hid up under lock and key.

People, get your asses up into the Celestial Forum and find out about this amazing NEW stuff about the First Vision. Bear in mind that the whole Church is founded upon the First Vision. If that can be shown to be in error through false testimony then it can be shown that Mormonism really was founded upon a lie.
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:58 pm
I enjoyed having two fairly long phone conversations this morning with RFM.
You and Hagoth from the NOM forum are two hidden gems for future YouTube interviews.

Additionally, I bear my testimony to the really good threads Shulem has created on the Celestial Forum. They are must-reads for the straight dope on the Book of Abraham and the First Vision.
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem
PS. Gee said he is open to the Catalyst Theory as a fallback, second choice.
This is so stupid. This proves even God doesn't know Egyptian hieroglyphics. Why would they put Her in that position? She is much smarter than to give Joseph Smith a wrong translation...
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:04 pm
Shulem
PS. Gee said he is open to the Catalyst Theory as a fallback, second choice.
This is so stupid. This proves even God doesn't know Egyptian hieroglyphics. Why would they put Her in that position? She is much smarter than to give Joseph Smith a wrong translation...

Actually, it proves that the God, Joseph Smith claimed to be utilizing, didn't know Egyptian hieroglyphics. The whole translation process was a total wash. The Book of Abraham is the most ridiculous book I've ever read about ancient Egyptian history. It's really that bad.

Gee clings on because of the verses in the Book of Abraham that refer to preexistence and how that doctrine has become a fundamental Mormon staple, so he takes the bad and the ugly with it because of those good points. And me, personally, I find some things in the Book of Abraham to be just fine and don't care to argue the theological points but it's the Egyptian points I will most definitely argue.

And yes, God is Female and Male at the same time all rolled up in one. But to the core, God is Female having birthed everything out of the Infinite. I get into that a little in my Celestial thread, God, the Meaning of Life. In my view, that thread is my ultimate achievement/masterpiece that I've submitted to this board. It's incredible how it came to be. I can't even describe it. You should check it out and take what you want and how you want and think about it.
Last edited by Shulem on Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Shulem,

How many times have you reached out to Gee and offered to debate him either on an online format, or on camera?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Manetho »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:17 pm
The Book of Abraham is the most ridiculous book I've ever read about ancient Egyptian history. It's really that bad.
It's not the worst book I've ever read about Egyptian history (there are a LOT of crackpots writing about ancient Egypt), but when the only defense of Joseph Smith I can muster is "He's not as bad as Ahmed Osman", it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of his purported prophetic abilities.

Gee's deceitful arguments disgust me. An Egyptologist should know better — and Gee probably does but won't let himself admit it.
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Shulem »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:05 pm
Shulem,

How many times have you reached out to Gee and offered to debate him either on an online format, or on camera?

- Doc

I hope that's not a trick question. ;)

Actually, I've never personally reached out to Gee to ask him to debate me or anyone for that matter. For one thing, first and foremost, I have great respect for the fact that he is a professor of Egyptology and has worked for many years within the framework of that discipline and keeping current with everything that goes with it. Gee could tap-dance around me and hand me my head when it comes to Egyptology in and of itself. He's miles ahead of me -- I look up to him. The problem is with the Book of Abraham and that is where our strengths change dramatically. I'm far more versed and capable in using Egyptology, church history, and a logical approach in analyzing data than John Gee is in defending it or keeping up with me in that respect. In this regard, he looks up to me. I am the master and he is the apprentice. From what I gather he seems stunted because of the box he has locked himself into. He doesn't know how to think outside the box and how to analyze data objectively because he works solely in the confines of testimony and defending the church at any and all cost. He works from within a box, trapped, confined, and and in a deluded state.

I hope that answers your question. Bottom line, it would simply be inappropriate for me to have a formal debate with him. We are not matched to do that. And I honestly don't want to. I want him to own up to his responsibility as an Egyptologist and represent his craft fairly and honestly when describing Book of Abraham folly. His apologetics with the Book of Abraham earns him an F grade. Sure, BYU pays him and he gets to keep a temple recommend but that is selling his soul and selling out. He has turned his back on Egyptology. He's a traitor to the Egyptians.
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Re: John Gee FAIR interview with Scott Gordon

Post by Shulem »

Manetho wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:29 pm
Gee's deceitful arguments disgust me. An Egyptologist should know better — and Gee probably does but won't let himself admit it.

In my opinion he is a tired and tortured man. I don't think that history will be very kind to professor Gee. He won't be remembered well and all that apologetic nonsense to defend an obvious fraud was a waste of effort, UNLESS, UNLESS, he turns that around before it's too late. There is still time for him to save himself and prevent the future from looking back at him as a total scumbag who defended the silly book that the Church will eventually dump as pseudepigrapha.

It's not too late for Gee. But he has to act NOW. No more delays. Come clean. Do it slowly if need be and in increments, but get started and make that transition.
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