The simple argument is that she became pregnant almost at the same time she was married to Joseph. The custom at the time was for 12-14 year olds to be married.
If she had been older then it would have likely been noteworthy enough to include in the gospel accounts.
I can see how it would get mentioned if she was 50 or 60 such as the story of the mother of John the Baptist.If she was 20 it would be a matter of no particular note.
I do not understand this investment in the youngest possible age. Of course I have no proof she was older than 13. I do not know how old she was.
Huck, I think the thing that bothers some people, probably most people when they think about it, is that Latter-day Saints are on record for teaching that the physical Man known as Heavenly Father came down out of heaven and screwed his own daughter and took pleasure in doing it. That is the problem. What father screws his own daughter and takes pleasure in doing it? Certainly not I and certainly not you. The whole idea of Heavenly Father coming down and performing such an act is repulsive to common decency.
Now, with that said, can you imagine Joseph creeping into a tent and catching Mary and Heavenly Father in the act? Think about that for just a moment. How would it look? The whole idea is stupid as is Mormonism is stoopid.
Shulem, I have absolutely no belief in Brigham Youngs idea that God had sexual intercourse with Mary. I think that is just a bad speculation. I might mention it contradicts the gospels. I have touched this discussion only in terms of the age of Mary when she had the child Jesus. I do not have a reason to think she was younger than safe to carry a child
Put your robe on and get the hell out of her before I beat your ass.
Oh yeah? What if a giant hand came out of the sky and flicked the back of your head?
Huffy puffy mean and angry Mormon Heavenly Father doesn't scare me one bit. He's nothing more than the imagination created by Church leaders to scare the members into submission and to keep paying money into coffers of the Church in order to make it at least 100 billion dollars.
If she was 20 it would be a matter of no particular note.
I'm not convinced of this.
Since I do not know Mary age and can easily see she could have been younger than 20 I am not going to try to convince you. I am however genuinely puzzled as to what point you are trying to make by insisting on the youngest plausible age. Does it make a difference to something?
Since I do not know Mary age and can easily see she could have been younger than 20 I am not going to try to convince you. I am however genuinely puzzled as to what point you are trying to make by insisting on the youngest plausible age. Does it make a difference to something?
I don't know why going with the age range (many Christians who have written on this agree on) is controversial.
That said, fine I'll say she's 20. It does not matter to me and it doesn't affect the argument.
Since I do not know Mary age and can easily see she could have been younger than 20 I am not going to try to convince you. I am however genuinely puzzled as to what point you are trying to make by insisting on the youngest plausible age. Does it make a difference to something?
I don't know why going with the age range (many Christians who have written on this agree on) is controversial.
That said, fine I'll say she's 20. It does not matter to me and it doesn't affect the argument.
drumdude, we can let it go either way, sorry I did not mean to badger you.
The source you quote via catholic.com is the Patrology of James, an apocryphal text written in the second century, probably over a hundred years later than the events it purports to describe, and of virtually no historical value.
Assuming Talmudic tradition predates Bar Kokhba fun times, you'd probably need to tack on about another year to account for betrothal/marriage.
If we kick the old mythoi can down a few more centuries, the infancy gospels have Mary living in the temple at age 14, when the priest decided she could be betrothed.