Mormons and Critical Race Theory

[MG 2.0]

Passing legislation prohibiting the teaching of a subject in circumstances where it isn't being taught = butthurt.

Which parts of the Utah/Idaho legislation back on page one of this thread are you opposed to? Whether or not critical race theory is being taught to younger students, the language as written in these documents encourages equal treatment for all. Young children should be taught “neutrality” positions, in my opinion.

Personally, I like the way the Utah legislation is written.

The language in these legislative attempts to tackle the critical race theory conversation is more or less preemptive in nature. You need to remember that kids, on the whole, are not walking around thinking much about this stuff. So to then immerse them into something and take a non neutral position in curriculum development and delivery CREATES a somewhat artificial problem where there wasn’t one to begin with.

Sure, as you mentioned, equal treatment of those with different racial/ethnic origins has always been something that humans have had to deal with. There have always been the overlords and the serfs. But the truth is, we’ve known how to attack this problem for many years now and good people from various backgrounds have been doing just that.

To make a mountain out of a molehill is unnecessary me thinks. Those that do so have something to gain financially by doing so in many cases. The Al Sharptons of the world.

That’s about all I have to say on the topic. It’s been WAY overblown. It’s a cottage industry.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

Passing legislation prohibiting the teaching of a subject in circumstances where it isn't being taught = butthurt.

Which parts of the Utah/Idaho legislation back on page one of this thread are you opposed to? Whether or not critical race theory is being taught to younger students, the language as written in these documents encourages equal treatment for all. Young children should be taught “neutrality” positions, in my opinion.

Personally, I like the way the Utah legislation is written.

The language in these legislative attempts to tackle the critical race theory conversation is more or less preemptive in nature. You need to remember that kids, on the whole, are not walking around thinking much about this stuff. So to then immerse them into something and take a non neutral position in curriculum development and delivery CREATES a somewhat artificial problem where there wasn’t one to begin with.

Sure, as you mentioned, equal treatment of those with different racial/ethnic origins has always been something that humans have had to deal with. There have always been the overlords and the serfs. But the truth is, we’ve known how to attack this problem for many years now and good people from various backgrounds have been doing just that.

To make a mountain out of a molehill is unnecessary me thinks. Those that do so have something to gain financially by doing so in many cases. The Al Sharptons of the world.

That’s about all I have to say on the topic. It’s been WAY overblown. It’s a cottage industry.

Regards,
MG

Making a mountain out of a molehill is exactly what the current legislation does. No one is teaching critical race theory to school children in Utah, so they aren't being "immersed" in anything. It's a 100% phoney, manufactured issue intended to keep the conservative base in a perpetual state of fear and anger. That kind of "culture war" is exactly a cottage industry. And a 100% cynical one at that.

[drumdude]

Making a mountain out of a molehill is exactly what the current legislation does. No one is teaching critical race theory to school children in Utah, so they aren't being "immersed" in anything. It's a 100% phoney, manufactured issue intended to keep the conservative base in a perpetual state of fear and anger. That kind of "culture war" is exactly a cottage industry. And a 100% cynical one at that.

Republicans decided a year ago to make this their central campaign platform. It's going to be a really awful election cycle.

[Res Ipsa]

Making a mountain out of a molehill is exactly what the current legislation does. No one is teaching critical race theory to school children in Utah, so they aren't being "immersed" in anything. It's a 100% phoney, manufactured issue intended to keep the conservative base in a perpetual state of fear and anger. That kind of "culture war" is exactly a cottage industry. And a 100% cynical one at that.

Republicans decided a year ago to make this their central campaign platform. It's going to be a really awful election cycle.

Yep, I just read about the statute introduced in Oklahoma, I think. If a single parent objects to a book in a public school library, the book must be removed. If the librarian doesn't, they must be fired and cannot work in a public school library for two years. Ugly, indeed.

[master_dc]

It didn’t bother me seeing white people excluded, but when I saw that a huge portion of Asians were also being excluded it set off some red alarms that maybe there is something very wrong with this obsession with race. The ideology seems very similar to what failed so catastrophically in the USSR.

Communism is a great idea in theory, Marxism is a great tool for examining society, but when out into practice, well we’ve all seen the results… I don’t think it’s unreasonable to view critical race theory with the same skepticism especially considering the strong ties to Marxist thought within the discipline.

Question: Are the Asians that were excluded more deserving of the spots at Harvard than the students that were accepted? If so, based on what measures? Should academic institutions only use grades and test scores to determine who should be accepted? what about outside activities? Letters of recommendation? Legacy status? Is Harvard better off only accepting the top performing students from private schools that have a history of success at Harvard? I think the issue is, we want fairness, but often times our fairness criteria is biased, and we don't realize it.

I am not tracking your link back to the USSR. critical race theory is akin to communism? I am not sure if I would go there.

[drumdude]

It didn’t bother me seeing white people excluded, but when I saw that a huge portion of Asians were also being excluded it set off some red alarms that maybe there is something very wrong with this obsession with race. The ideology seems very similar to what failed so catastrophically in the USSR.

Communism is a great idea in theory, Marxism is a great tool for examining society, but when out into practice, well we’ve all seen the results… I don’t think it’s unreasonable to view critical race theory with the same skepticism especially considering the strong ties to Marxist thought within the discipline.

Question: Are the Asians that were excluded more deserving of the spots at Harvard than the students that were accepted? If so, based on what measures? Should academic institutions only use grades and test scores to determine who should be accepted? what about outside activities? Letters of recommendation? Legacy status? Is Harvard better off only accepting the top performing students from private schools that have a history of success at Harvard? I think the issue is, we want fairness, but often times our fairness criteria is biased, and we don't realize it.

I am not tracking your link back to the USSR. critical race theory is akin to communism? I am not sure if I would go there.

I think race shouldn't be considered at all in admissions. Plenty of other metrics could be used, such as socioeconomic status, so that lower income whites and blacks, from single parent inner city or rural households, could have an opportunity to compete with rich kids.

Marxism, specifically, not Communism. To be clear, Critical Race Theory is not identical to Marxism. However Critical Race Theory borrows heavily from Marxist thought - specifically the idea that equality of outcome should be the measure of success against racism, rather than equality of opportunity.

[MG 2.0]

Which parts of the Utah/Idaho legislation back on page one of this thread are you opposed to? Whether or not critical race theory is being taught to younger students, the language as written in these documents encourages equal treatment for all. Young children should be taught “neutrality” positions, in my opinion.

Personally, I like the way the Utah legislation is written.

The language in these legislative attempts to tackle the critical race theory conversation is more or less preemptive in nature. You need to remember that kids, on the whole, are not walking around thinking much about this stuff. So to then immerse them into something and take a non neutral position in curriculum development and delivery CREATES a somewhat artificial problem where there wasn’t one to begin with.

Sure, as you mentioned, equal treatment of those with different racial/ethnic origins has always been something that humans have had to deal with. There have always been the overlords and the serfs. But the truth is, we’ve known how to attack this problem for many years now and good people from various backgrounds have been doing just that.

To make a mountain out of a molehill is unnecessary me thinks. Those that do so have something to gain financially by doing so in many cases. The Al Sharptons of the world.

That’s about all I have to say on the topic. It’s been WAY overblown. It’s a cottage industry.

Regards,
MG

Making a mountain out of a molehill is exactly what the current legislation does. No one is teaching critical race theory to school children in Utah, so they aren't being "immersed" in anything. It's a 100% phoney, manufactured issue intended to keep the conservative base in a perpetual state of fear and anger. That kind of "culture war" is exactly a cottage industry. And a 100% cynical one at that.

AM posted this interview earlier in the thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzYNRFQ2R7s

Good chance that what you’re saying isn’t 100% true. I’m comfortable with my point of view as I’m sure you are yours.

The interviewer finds himself flat footed a number of times as this video progresses. Almost tone deaf. A lot of that going around nowadays.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

The interviewer finds himself flat footed a number of times as this video progresses. Almost tone deaf. A lot of that going around nowadays.

To be fair, he asks for a concrete example of critical race theory being taught in schools and the legislator says he doesn't have a specific example. How the hell can he not have a bunch of them if he's complaining about it??

He mentions that in a West Jordan high school, they are doing something called a "Privilege Walk"

http://doloreshuerta.org/wp-content/upl ... e-walk.pdf

You have the students line up and take steps forward or back depending on the answers to questions like:

1) If English is your first language, take a step forward
2) If you are a white male, take a step forward

Then they spent the rest of the interview debating if teaching about privilege in this way is racist or not. I think it rides the line.

[MG 2.0]

The interviewer finds himself flat footed a number of times as this video progresses. Almost tone deaf. A lot of that going around nowadays.

To be fair, he asks for a concrete example of critical race theory being taught in schools and the legislator says he doesn't have a specific example. How the hell can he not have a bunch of them if he's complaining about it??

He mentions that in a West Jordan high school, they are doing something called a "Privilege Walk"

http://doloreshuerta.org/wp-content/upl ... e-walk.pdf

You have the students line up and take steps forward or back depending on the answers to questions like:

1) If English is your first language, take a step forward
2) If you are a white male, take a step forward

Then they spent the rest of the interview debating if teaching about privilege in this way is racist or not. I think it rides the line.

Can you even imagine what it is like for a disadvantaged person to find themselves falling behind in an activity like this? I think approaching curriculum development from the point of view of “A rising tide lifts ALL boats” is going to have a more lasting and positive effect. NO ONE wants to be put in a position where they see themselves falling behind he rest of their classmates in real time.

This whole reparations thing is a fix that’s shallow and unresponsive to the real needs of the disadvantaged. But it damn well helps the white folks feel good about themselves.

Policies and curriculum that lift ALL students is the way to go in my opinion. That’s the whole idea behind he legislative enactments for Utah and Idaho listed on page one of this thread. Let’s not sink ANYONE’S boat. Let’s keep them ALL afloat. There is no reason to start firing cannons at the other boat…unless you’re a pirate looking for some kind of booty or power.

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

Two people who don't know anything recommending the same video shouldn't be a selling point, but I clicked on it anyway. I watched about half.

The interviewer finds himself flat footed a number of times as this video progresses. Almost tone deaf. A lot of that going around nowadays.

Sure, if "tone deaf" means a person can't catch the spirit of a baseless message going viral. The interviewer asked good questions, and couldn't get Christiansen to provide real answers. Christiansen assures that there are thousands of concerned parents, but he's unable to give specific examples of what the parents are actually concerned about. He frames the problem in platitudes -- "we've come so far and critical race theory is taking us backwards!"