Where did the Mormon God have sex with Mary?

[Doctor Steuss]

No but when I was a kid watching the Newlywed game I always thought that Bob Eubanks was the inspiration for Marvel comics The Leader a.k.a. Samuel Sterns.

<<snip pic>>

I will never be able to un-see this now.

[Shulem]

The real miracle is not that Virgin Mary had a baby without knowing man like the Catholics say, but the fact that this thread has survived this long in the Terrestrial Forum without getting booted down below.

It's a miracle!

[doubtingthomas]

(a) A discussion, based on the meagre historical evidence available, of the lowest possible ages of marriage allowed in Jewish societies at the beginning of the Christian era.

Not the earliest possible, according to a Catholic newspaper, "Alma White commented on the age of marriage in Palestine, ‘A girl is usually married in her twelfth or thirteenth year, and sometimes as early as her tenth year.'”
https://aleteia.org/2019/03/25/how-old- ... ith-jesus/

ALeteia is the Catholic Deseret News.

[doubtingthomas]

I can see how it would get mentioned if she was 50 or 60 such as the story of the mother of John the Baptist.If she was 20 it would be a matter of no particular note.

Unlikely, a 20 year old woman wouldn't be "young" in the first century.

"Short life expectancy was one of the motivating factors behind this early age, as the average life expectancy for most people in the ancient world was between 30-40 years of age."
https://aleteia.org/2019/03/25/how-old- ... ith-jesus/

And drumdude points out

Almah (עַלְמָה‎ ‘almāh, plural: עֲלָמוֹת‎ ‘ălāmōṯ, from a root implying the vigour of puberty.

If you had to bet 10,000 dollars to guess Mary's age, what would you say?

[Morley]

I can see how it would get mentioned if she was 50 or 60 such as the story of the mother of John the Baptist.If she was 20 it would be a matter of no particular note.

Unlikely, a 20 year old woman wouldn't be "young" in the first century.

"Short life expectancy was one of the motivating factors behind this early age, as the average life expectancy for most people in the ancient world was between 30-40 years of age."
https://aleteia.org/2019/03/25/how-old- ... ith-jesus/

That's misleading. Those numbers are artificially low because of the high rate of infant and childhood mortality. In Ancient Rome, if you made it to the age of twenty, you could easily expect to live into your fifties or longer.

[doubtingthomas]

That's misleading. Those numbers are artificially low because of the high rate of infant and childhood mortality.

Okay. Point taken.

[dantana]

As someone in the barely a millennial generation that had seminary in the mid-to-late-90s it seemed like okay, maybe it had to be his sperm so Jesus could be a demigod (cause how else could he do all that he did), but something more akin to IVF or something, not sex. That made it more palatable. Mary was a virgin, or at least believed that she was, and everyone else. God could deliver and guide that one sperm to do its mission. Though now I realize that frame of reference was far away from what Brigham had and I guess to him Mary fell into a sleep (or was given a roofie) and god did the deed that had to be done cause reasons.

Seriously though, which scenario paints god in the better light; He couldn't do the insemination through magic - or - he could, but didn't want to.

[2bizE]

I’m guessing it was Jesus and Mary in the observatory with the min candlestick…

[Chap]

(a) A discussion, based on the meagre historical evidence available, of the lowest possible ages of marriage allowed in Jewish societies at the beginning of the Christian era.

Not the earliest possible, according to a Catholic newspaper, "Alma White commented on the age of marriage in Palestine, ‘A girl is usually married in her twelfth or thirteenth year, and sometimes as early as her tenth year.'”
https://aleteia.org/2019/03/25/how-old- ... ith-jesus/

ALeteia is the Catholic Deseret News.

The full quote from your newspaper source is:

One biblical historian notes, “Some customs of biblical Palestine continued through the centuries, and after her trip to the Near East around 1910, Alma White commented on the age of marriage in Palestine, ‘A girl is usually married in her twelfth or thirteenth year, and sometimes as early as her tenth year.'”

So someone in 1910 observed customs amongst Palestinian Muslims and we are to extrapolate that to Jewish customs in the first century.

If you are happy with that, fine. But I am sorry to have to say that I can't follow you. For me, only an ancient source will do as evidence for what happened in antiquity. And as already pointed out in this thread, we only have the Patrology of James, which was probably written over a century past the events we are discussing.

By the way, I have no personal investment in any particular maternal age for the conception of Jesus. The only reason I entered this thread was stated clearly at that point:

[...]

But most "sane" christians believe God impregnated 14 year old Mary.

[...]

So far as I am aware, there is no reliable historical evidence of the age at which Mary first became pregnant. I know of no major Christian group amongst whom it is generally believed that the age in question was 14, or indeed any other age.

I spent a long period of my life as a believing, well-read and apologetically argumentative member of a major Christian denomination that regarded itself as being part of the central traditions of the historical churches of the west. At no time did I find myself asked to believe anything in particular about some supposed maternal age for the conception of Jesus. Nor did I ever hear the topic discussed. Mary was always represented in art as a rather young mother, but that is all. I am sure it is possible to locate newspaper or magazine articles from time to time that say something on such points. But it is simply false to say that "most "sane" christians believe God impregnated 14 year old Mary". And that is pretty well all I have to say on this topic.

Those interested in what is believed by members of the Roman Catholic Church will find a very detailed and authoritative set of statements, explanations and sources here:

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

[doubtingthomas]

Mary was always represented in art as a rather young mother, but that is all.

"that is all"? When did God get Mary's consent to get her pregnant? It wouldn't matter if Mary was 30 years old, Mary never consented to get pregnant

Do you have a problem with consent? Creepy!