Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

[Gunnar]

If these studies are correct, vaccines aren't very effective against Omicron infection unless you've had a booster shot, so that case number wouldn't be unexpected for vaxxed people (many of whom presumably aren't boosted yet):

mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine boosters induce neutralizing immunity against SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant

Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against Omicron or Delta infection

Effectiveness of mRNA-1273 against SARS-CoV-2 omicron and delta variants

The second link mentions the Danish study which put vaccine effectiveness against infection at ~35-40%. I mentioned that report about a week ago on a Reddit thread and the antivaxxers were thinking it was a ‘gotcha’ moment, when in reality they didn’t understand that their chances against hospitalization, an ICU visit, ventilation, serious injury, and death decreased significantly even if infection occurs. I got downtooted since the subreddit I was on has recently taken a sharp turn to the Right.

Cinepro, what’s your opinion with regard to vaccination and the above-mentioned outcomes?

- Doc

Those are discouraging reports. They are consistent with my county's results showing that only 50% of current hospitalized patients are unvaccinated. It seems more and more likely that a very high percentage of the population is eventually going to get the omicron variant whether or not they are fully vaccinated and boosted, even if they have previously had and recovered from covid. If this is true, it is not hard to understand the growing sentiment that getting vaccinated may be somewhat pointless. Hopefully scientists and doctors will be able to devise more effective vaccines and remedies for omicron and newer varieties yet to come.

[ajax18]

Hopefully scientists and doctors will be able to devise more effective vaccines and remedies for omicron and newer varieties yet to come.

A better remedy would be to protect the vulnerable and get people back to work to create a strong enough economy with enough workers to support the hospitals. Monoclonal antibody treatment and other therapeutics might be a better defense than focusing on vaccinating everyone. Think of Omicron as the ultimate vaccine mandate. Positive case counts mean nothing. Shutting down schools and quarantining is really backward thinking. Thankfully many on the left are starting to realize this. They're a little late but better late than never.

[canpakes]

A better remedy would be to protect the vulnerable and get people back to work to create a strong enough economy with enough workers to support the hospitals.

ajax, there aren’t enough beds or rooms to do this if measures aren’t taken to slow down infection rates. And it’s not as if hospitals can just put out a ‘help wanted’ advert for all of the docs, nurses and support personnel needed to attend to an unmitigated COVID surge brought about by doing nothing but waiting to see who will become infected.

Monoclonal antibody treatment and other therapeutics might be a better defense than focusing on vaccinating everyone.

You are required to spend at least an hour with an IV, then an hour under observation, with this option. Again, there’s the unavoidable question of having the facilities and personnel available to deploy this at scale in an unmitigated pandemic. No hospital system in the nation is set up to do so.

I can get a vax shot at my local drugstore. Our existing infrastructure supports a massive vaccination campaign in ways completely unavailable to monoclonal antibody treatment. And that’s before you even begin to look at the cost of hospitalizing many more millions who would need that treatment if a vaccine was not available.

https://www.houstonmethodist.org/blog/a ... eceive-it/

If you think this through, it becomes a lot harder to toe your ideological line in favor over the more practical and life-saving alternatives.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If you think this through …

-_-

[cinepro]

Cinepro, what’s your opinion with regard to vaccination and the above-mentioned outcomes?

- Doc

If the findings on those reports are correct (and the increases in cases in even highly vaxxed areas would seem to indicate they might be), I think people are drastically overestimating the effect of the two-shot vaccination against infection from Omicron.

I agree the vaccines are highly effective against severe outcomes including hospitalization and death (I'm 2x + boosted, and think everyone else should be too), but it's like nails on a chalkboard when I hear people focus on cases and vaccinations.

[Res Ipsa]

More on estimates of bed availability in hospitals and ICUs. https://insidemedicine.bulletin.com/ari ... join-them/

Additional evidence that the "official" reports don't keep up with conditions on the ground.

[K Graham]

Thanks for that link Res.

Jesus. It really is worse than I thought.

271852587_235823818702104_2323332764410107819_n.jpg

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Cinepro, what’s your opinion with regard to vaccination and the above-mentioned outcomes?

- Doc

If the findings on those reports are correct (and the increases in cases in even highly vaxxed areas would seem to indicate they might be), I think people are drastically overestimating the effect of the two-shot vaccination against infection from Omicron.

I agree the vaccines are highly effective against severe outcomes including hospitalization and death (I'm 2x + boosted, and think everyone else should be too), but it's like nails on a chalkboard when I hear people focus on cases and vaccinations.

You don’t consider a 35-40% vaccine effectiveness against infection successful? Regardless, I see RI has a lower VE, but even 23% VE against infection has huge upside combined with the other protections afforded by it, no? I don’t really understand what you’re getting at.

- Doc

[cinepro]

You don’t consider a 35-40% vaccine effectiveness against infection successful?

The three studies I cited showed little to no "neutrilization" of Omicron from the regular 2-vax regimen.

We included individuals that received their primary series recently (<3 months), distantly (6–12 months), or an additional “booster” dose, while accounting for prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. Remarkably, neutralization of Omicron was undetectable in most [2-dose] vaccinees.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S009 ... %2901496-3

receipt of 2 doses of COVID-19 vaccines was not protective against Omicron. Vaccine effectiveness against Omicron was 37% (95%CI, 19-50%) ≥7 days after receiving an mRNA vaccine for the third dose. (Emphasis added)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf

The third study showed mild effectiveness ~30% right after the 2-dose regimen, but by 90 days out it was down to ~15% and then down to ~0% by 180 days.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv ... medium.gif

I was initially skeptical of the booster strategy in September, but now with Omicron it seems that was prescient. But booster rates are pretty low across the country.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/p ... rates.html

[canpakes]

The three studies I cited showed little to no "neutrilization" of Omicron from the regular 2-vax regimen.
…
I was initially skeptical of the booster strategy in September, but now with Omicron it seems that was prescient. But booster rates are pretty low across the country.

I’m intrigued that this is such a focal point for so many, especially considering this earlier point:

I agree the vaccines are highly effective against severe outcomes including hospitalization and death (I'm 2x + boosted, and think everyone else should be too), but it's like nails on a chalkboard when I hear people focus on cases and vaccinations.

Even if the vaccines did absolutely nothing with regard to preventing infection, yet have a significant effect on the outcome of infection in the manner that you describe, then that’s a ‘win’, and a highly desirable outcome.

Especially if they don’t prevent infection.

For any given patient, not preventing infection isn’t too different from never having been infected, if the end result is no symptoms, or mild symptoms, and no deleterious after-effects (like, death). That point can be illustrated by considering cases + vaccination, as opposed to just hospitalizations/deaths.