Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

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MG 2.0
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:06 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:52 am


If you’re still thinking about it, let me give you a pointed clue. Pay special attention to the words “religion” and “Mormonism” and the context within which I have used those words.
No thanks, your derailing of topics is well known around here. Let's stick with the subject at hand.
Strike two.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by MG 2.0 »

Shulem wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:25 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:01 am
As I interact with folks like Philo and others I can see the danger in taking absolutist/dogmatic/fundamentalist positions on anything having to do with religion, and Mormonism in particular. And then sticking to it until hell freezes over. Except for the fundamentals of course.

Philo, Philo, are you still there?

:D

Okay, so here we are, TOGETHER, we share our thoughts and aspirations, etc.

MG, thank you for showing me your card, the volcanic card. Live long and prosper, my friend.

I will address this soon enough. Allow me to collect my thoughts. You should know that Joseph Smith had ideas and thoughts about volcanos and the ancient formation of lands prior to when he dictated the Book of Mormon.
Keep in mind that your original response to the links and information. I provided was:
Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with any of that apologetic rubbish.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154675&hilit=volcanic&start=50
My guess is that things haven’t changed.

Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Marcus
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:09 am
Marcus wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:06 am

No thanks, your derailing of topics is well known around here. Let's stick with the subject at hand.
Strike two.
When you get to strike three will you stop derailing? :D

Anyway, back to the topic:

There are outstanding questions about your comments. Here is the main one you have yet to answer:
Marcus wrote:
Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:55 pm
...I have posted multiple excerpts showing Brandley's theory is not the same as Shulem's. You have posted nothing to support your position. Why are you continuing to argue they are the same?
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Shulem
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:16 am
My guess is that things haven’t changed.

Patience my friend. You're dealing with Shulem. Relax. Take a break.

;)
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by MG 2.0 »

Shulem wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:24 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:16 am
My guess is that things haven’t changed.

Patience my friend. You're dealing with Shulem.
Dum da dum dum. Dum da dum dum waaaa.
Shulem wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:24 am
Relax. Take a break.
I think I shall. I’ll check back at a later date and see what others have to say in response to your new information not yet published. Until then.

Taking a break.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:25 am
You should know that Joseph Smith had ideas and thoughts about volcanos and the ancient formation of lands prior to when he dictated the Book of Mormon.
Imagine what Joseph could have included one week after the Grovers Mill invasion in 1938.
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Volcanos and earthquakes

Post by Shulem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:21 am
Shulem wrote:
Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:50 pm
Show me your card, MG.

Lay it on the table and let's see it.
Earlier (on the other thread I think?) I brought up volcanism and links that went into specific detail. The eastern seaboard doesn’t fit the narrative in the Book of Mormon. Both you and Brandley have to ignore the internal narrative in order to justify/support your theories in regards to Delmarva. Yes, I know you responded…but your response was dependent on the Book of Mormon being a fictional production. I suppose that this divide between our presuppositions is probably insurmountable. The author of the critique I linked to in regards to Brandley’s theory brings up issues with his Book of Mormon geography. How many of those issues/objections would the correlate with your Delmarva I can’t say. That’s why, earlier, I asked you to simply point out how your Delmarva theory differentiates itself enough from Brandley’s in order to be immune from those same criticisms.

That is the simple question I’m interested in having you answer when all is said and done.

Although, again, it doesn’t really matter because I think both of you, nonbeliever and believer have a problem to deal with in explaining the contradictions within the narrative and the geography of the eastern seaboard of the United States. That’s not an issue for you, I know.

Joseph wasn’t smart enough to know that volcanism and it’s effects (albeit the incomplete understanding of ‘darkness’ used in the narrative by either Mormon or the original author) were an anachronistic entry into the narrative. C’mon. Dumb one minute, a genius the next?

Anyway, that’s my main beef with Brandley and yourself. Delmarva doesn’t fit the COMPLETE description of the events leading up to Christ’s visit to the Americas. Some of the mesoamercan models do, in the main. I had linked you to one example, but you didn’t want anything to do with it because it was the work of an apologist.

Shulem, I think that it is readily apparent that the divide between yourself and believers is insurmountable. But that’s OK. It’s fine to have different view out there in the marketplace for people to choose from. And it’s totally cool that you have a passion for your ‘truth’ and feel a compunction to put it out there.

Conclusive evidence shows that Smith was familiar with the Adam Clarke Commentary, moreover, the Genesis account became his specialty as witnessed in the new translation of the Old Testament which he began immediately after the Book of Mormon was published. Clarke noted in the Genesis section that "great changes that have taken place in different parts of the earth since the flood, by volcanic eruptions, earthquakes" and so it makes sense that Smith contemplated these things. Clarke notes how science questions the biblical account of the earth being only 6,000 years old whereby scientific evidence shows it's much older due to "the formation of different strata or beds of earth, either by inundations or volcanic eruption", so the crust of the earth is much older in spite of traditional belief passed down from the Mosaic Bible. Even more curious is Clarke noting how "Volcanoes in the moon have been observed by means of the telescope" thus "lunar volcanoes". And, if there are volcanos on the moon then there might also be men on the moon, perhaps dressed as Quakers as reported by those who heard Joseph Smith teach that very thing. The point is that if Smith thought men and volcanos were on the moon then he might also think that volcanos were at Delmarva because that is no less fantastic than volcanos on the moon. The Book of Mormon tells us about great changes being made to the landmass at Christ's coming and the rocks were broken up and whole cities were sunk. It's reasonable to think Smith may have visualized volcanic destruction even at Delmarva all those years ago and that such were sunken into the ocean and disappeared forever. But, volcanos or exploding mountains bursting with lava are not specifically mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Earthquakes were the main catastrophe along with fires and even mountains being made low. 3 Nephi 8 describes all the natural destructive phenomena that took place when the people were killed and the land was changed.

Look, see for yourself. Is it reasonable to think an ignorant farm boy could look at this map and think the jagged landform was caused by earthquakes or even volcanos as a direct result of what we read in the Book of Mormon? Whether Smith knowingly wrote volcanos into his story being cloaked in mystery makes no difference because all is fiction. Smith had never been to Delmarva. He didn't know what was down there. For him, it was an open book and it looked like a great place to write his story having the exact landmass, waterways, oceans, and cardinal directions described in the Book of Mormon. Delmarva fits like a glove. It's a perfect fit. It remained for Smith to fill in all the blanks and decorate the story. But most important, provide means for Moroni to bury the plates at Cumorah.

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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Tator wrote:
Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:29 pm
Shulem has single handedly put a lot of weight on a lot of Mormon shelves.

Yes, I'm afraid that I have done just that. I predict the Delmarva model will eventually become the universal model accepted by former members of the Church and critics alike. First of all, critics and apostates don't believe the story is true and recognize it as pure fiction. But in spite of that nobody should think Smith didn't have a place in mind where he visualized his story and had some kind of backdrop in which to base the geography and location. I've spent quite a bit of time discussing that and it doesn't make any sense at all to think Smith didn't think in those terms when telling his story.

And so, Delmarva works. It has everything going for it and its right where Smith needed it to be to work hi mojo and bring the gold plates to his back door. Nobody really believes Moroni hefted a golden book thousands of miles. That's just the stupidest thing I've ever heard. People that believe that are just plain stupid. They've checked their brains in and handed their souls to the Church like the dummies they are. In the mean time the Church takes no official position on geography because it's stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm going to squeeze the Church with that rock and its going to get much harder before all this is said and done. The Church is in real trouble because the world is not going to put up with its nonsense. The world is moving forward. The Church doesn't know how to do that and so it takes no position.
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:31 pm
Tator wrote:
Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:29 pm
Shulem has single handedly put a lot of weight on a lot of Mormon shelves.

Yes, I'm afraid that I have done just that. I predict the Delmarva model will eventually become the universal model accepted by former members of the Church and critics alike. First of all, critics and apostates don't believe the story is true and recognize it as pure fiction. But in spite of that nobody should think Smith didn't have a place in mind where he visualized his story and had some kind of backdrop in which to base the geography and location. I've spent quite a bit of time discussing that and it doesn't make any sense at all to think Smith didn't think in those terms when telling his story.

And so, Delmarva works. It has everything going for it and its right where Smith needed it to be to work hi mojo and bring the gold plates to his back door. Nobody really believes Moroni hefted a golden book thousands of miles. That's just the stupidest thing I've ever heard. People that believe that are just plain stupid. They've checked their brains in and handed their souls to the Church like the dummies they are. In the mean time the Church takes no official position on geography because it's stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm going to squeeze the Church with that rock and its going to get much harder before all this is said and done. The Church is in real trouble because the world is not going to put up with its nonsense. The world is moving forward. The Church doesn't know how to do that and so it takes no position.
I have always thought the church's position of remaining neutral on issues is profoundly questionable considering it has access to He Who Knows All, and LOVES to give revelation to the church. Joseph Smith asked the most trivial and silly questions of Jesus and they are all recorded in the published canonized D&C! Of COURSE Jesus will answer your questions you prophets. And yet, on so many issues the church doesn't get the answers and instead pretends to neutrality?! That is downright weird.
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Re: Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:49 pm
I have always thought the church's position of remaining neutral on issues is profoundly questionable considering it has access to He Who Knows All, and LOVES to give revelation to the church. Joseph Smith asked the most trivial and silly questions of Jesus and they are all recorded in the published canonized D&C! Of COURSE Jesus will answer your questions you prophets. And yet, on so many issues the church doesn't get the answers and instead pretends to neutrality?! That is downright weird.

One of the key selling points of Mormonism has ever been that its members all believe the same thing and are a united front in understanding the gospel and the scriptures. But here we see the Church is divided and members disagree and contradict each other. The Church is not united. The Church does not believe the same thing. The spirit within Mormonism is telling members to believe different things and the leaders are acting like that's okay just so long as they don't talk about it or tell anyone that it's prophetic. Curious how the Church admits there are keys in understanding important parts of the geography and this in and of itself identifies the very land in which it took place:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wrote:This history contains information about the places they lived, including descriptions of landforms, natural features, and the distances and cardinal directions between important points. The internal consistency of these descriptions is one of the striking features of the Book of Mormon.

The Church today is just like any other Christian church which has members believing whatever they want and they disagree and contradict each other. There is no united front in Mormonism when it comes to Book of Mormon geography and lazy learner prophet Nelson is not helping. Why? Because he's a coward and a faker.

Now is the time to ram this down the throat of the Church and make them choke. They can't have their cake and eat it too. The Church has to decide; where are the Book of Mormon lands? The leaders of the Church are proven cowards, men who can't get a scrap of revelation. The Book of Mormon has beaten them at their own game and I'm here to rub that salt into the wound and make it hurt. More and more members are going to want answers and expect the prophet to get one and speak up. But they will be disappointed and when they learn about Delmarva they will further question the authenticity of the book and many will fall away.
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