Libertarian Utopias

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:17 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:07 am
I reread it. Again. In contrast to you, I read all four numbered points. Why did you cut that last one off?

As I told Marcus, I had not remembered Shades's entire post -- just his statement about entertainment. Having read the whole post, I understand his point about new people having the same right to entertainment as old hands. But you aren't new people here.

Having reread the entire post -- including the part you left out -- I think my opinion is much more aligned with Shades's than yours is. Paragraph 4 is completely consistent with the Libertarian value of not using people as means to an end. And the very essence of trolling is using other people as a means to an end. A substantial number of people here have expressed that the way you choose to entertain yourself is degrading their entertainment. So, Shades' intent is clear: we must moderate according to the greatest good for the greatest number.

You can disagree with me about Binger's entertainment. But it is not an insult to state a completely accurate description of what he considers entertainment -- at least his entertainment here. You haven't proven him right about anything. In fact, all you've done is alerted me to Shades's own guidance for what a moderator should do in this exact situation: moderate according to the greatest good for the greatest number. That's not a very hard call at this point, is it?

Of course Shades isn't happy about the action he took. I'm not happy about it either. But he did what he did, and now I'm among the three of us who are specifically charged with acting for the greatest good for the greatest number.
You’re upset because I proved you wrong. 100% wrong and everyone knows lawyers hate being proven wrong, especially by a uneducated roofer. No matter how you use your lawyer spin, Shades said the ultimate goal for this board is entertainment. And in my opinion your clique is 100% trying to remove entertainment from the equation. You’re here to have your cognitive dissonance stroked, not be entertained. That’s exactly what you said in the post above.
Once again, you've left out the paragraph that shows you are wrong. Try again. It's paragraph 4. The one you deliberately left out of your attachment.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

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I really don’t see how AM sees Shades’ post as backing up his posting habits.

Yes, Shades says people can behave inanely. So far so good (for the AM theory), but then immediately talks about the lack of universal appeal in a “libertarian utopia.” Now we introduce the problem of his intended meaning in the use of that term. I think libertarianism is of limited value, so I am really not all that sympathetic to or concerned with the finer points of a philosophy that has as much realism to it as the ideals of Christianity, albeit without Christianity’s salutary privileging of human compassion. But I take it to mean that because not all like a free for all, moderation is a necessity.

And so it is. So now we get to the point he makes about entertainment. Well, in context I would say he wants everyone to be entertained to the extent that they can be without infringing on the entertainment of others.

In that light, I don’t see much defense of AM’s trolling habits in Shades post. If anything, Shades himself has clearly spoken on why the mass unhappiness of others with AM’s posting habits militates against the fulfillment of the board’s purpose.
Last edited by Kishkumen on Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Atlanticmike »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:19 am
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:17 am


You’re upset because I proved you wrong. 100% wrong and everyone knows lawyers hate being proven wrong, especially by a uneducated roofer. No matter how you use your lawyer spin, Shades said the ultimate goal for this board is entertainment. And in my opinion your clique is 100% trying to remove entertainment from the equation. You’re here to have your cognitive dissonance stroked, not be entertained. That’s exactly what you said in the post above.
Once again, you've left out the paragraph that shows you are wrong. Try again. It's paragraph 4. The one you deliberately left out of your attachment.
I didn’t leave anything out. We were talking about entertainment and you didn’t think entertainment should have anything to do with his board. Like I said, I’m here because I find Binger entertaining. Way more entertaining then anything that has come out of your clique. But you guys don’t care about entertainment for “other” posters. You only care about what gels with your narrative. That’s why Shades talks about “cliques”, because he knew this situation was bound to happen if cliques were formed.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Kishkumen »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:25 am
I didn’t leave anything out. We were talking about entertainment and you didn’t think entertainment should have anything to do with his board. Like I said, I’m here because I find Binger entertaining. Way more entertaining then anything that has come out of your clique. But you guys don’t care about entertainment for “other” posters. You only care about what gels with your narrative. That’s why Shades talks about “cliques”, because he knew this situation was bound to happen if cliques were formed.
When we weigh your entertainment against the entertainment of the majority of participants, it is clear whose entertainment gets priority. Not yours. You are a single poster, and Binger is another. We have a large number of posters who have openly complained about not finding either one of you at all entertaining.

Shades was clearly right to weigh entertainment in this way. Your personal entertainment cannot be a tyranny that dictates to the rest of us.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:25 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:19 am


Once again, you've left out the paragraph that shows you are wrong. Try again. It's paragraph 4. The one you deliberately left out of your attachment.
I didn’t leave anything out. We were talking about entertainment and you didn’t think entertainment should have anything to do with his board. Like I said, I’m here because I find Binger entertaining. Way more entertaining then anything that has come out of your clique. But you guys don’t care about entertainment for “other” posters. You only care about what gels with your narrative. That’s why Shades talks about “cliques”, because he knew this situation was bound to happen if cliques were formed.
You most certainly did. And you're still doing it. There are two paragraphs that address entertainment. You quoted one, but left out the other. And you're still doing it. Do you really need me to rub your nose in it by taking a screenshot and attaching it, or will you just admit that paragraph 4 is also about entertainment.

People who have strong arguments don't have to selectively quote. Paragraph 4 is clear.

Binger being entertaining does not explain your aggressive, constant trolling since you've been here. We're talking about you, not Binger. I will keep saying it until it sinks in. Paragraph 4: Your "entertainment" is degrading many others' "entertainment." And based on the content of your many posts, you've intentionally done so. Whether someone happens to enjoy your behavior isn't the point. The point is that you are degrading the entertainment of many folks here.

You are entitled to the same "entertainment" rights as everyone else. You are not entitled to "degrade" the entertainment of others. And if degrading the entertainment of others is your idea of entertainment, then I'm not required to care. I'm required to act for the greatest good for the greatest number.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Atlanticmike »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:40 am
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:25 am


I didn’t leave anything out. We were talking about entertainment and you didn’t think entertainment should have anything to do with his board. Like I said, I’m here because I find Binger entertaining. Way more entertaining then anything that has come out of your clique. But you guys don’t care about entertainment for “other” posters. You only care about what gels with your narrative. That’s why Shades talks about “cliques”, because he knew this situation was bound to happen if cliques were formed.
You most certainly did. And you're still doing it. There are two paragraphs that address entertainment. You quoted one, but left out the other. And you're still doing it. Do you really need me to rub your nose in it by taking a screenshot and attaching it, or will you just admit that paragraph 4 is also about entertainment.

People who have strong arguments don't have to selectively quote. Paragraph 4 is clear.

Binger being entertaining does not explain your aggressive, constant trolling since you've been here. We're talking about you, not Binger. I will keep saying it until it sinks in. Paragraph 4: Your "entertainment" is degrading many others' "entertainment." And based on the content of your many posts, you've intentionally done so. Whether someone happens to enjoy your behavior isn't the point. The point is that you are degrading the entertainment of many folks here.

You are entitled to the same "entertainment" rights as everyone else. You are not entitled to "degrade" the entertainment of others. And if degrading the entertainment of others is your idea of entertainment, then I'm not required to care. I'm required to act for the greatest good for the greatest number.
Ah yes, I see how that works now. You get to call me a troll in super paradise but if I point out in Spirit paradise that I think Doc Cam is a troll, you tell me to stay in my lane. Man it must be nice to be you.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Atlanticmike »

Hey. If I go respond to Kishkumen and tell him I think he’s a troll here in super paradise, is that against the rules?
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Kishkumen »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:45 am
Hey. If I go respond to Kishkumen and tell him I think he’s a troll here in super paradise, is that against the rules?
If you want to make a fool out of yourself, be my guest. You’re on a roll so far!
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Atlanticmike »

Hey res. If I call someone a fool here in super paradise is that against the rules?
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:44 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:40 am


You most certainly did. And you're still doing it. There are two paragraphs that address entertainment. You quoted one, but left out the other. And you're still doing it. Do you really need me to rub your nose in it by taking a screenshot and attaching it, or will you just admit that paragraph 4 is also about entertainment.

People who have strong arguments don't have to selectively quote. Paragraph 4 is clear.

Binger being entertaining does not explain your aggressive, constant trolling since you've been here. We're talking about you, not Binger. I will keep saying it until it sinks in. Paragraph 4: Your "entertainment" is degrading many others' "entertainment." And based on the content of your many posts, you've intentionally done so. Whether someone happens to enjoy your behavior isn't the point. The point is that you are degrading the entertainment of many folks here.

You are entitled to the same "entertainment" rights as everyone else. You are not entitled to "degrade" the entertainment of others. And if degrading the entertainment of others is your idea of entertainment, then I'm not required to care. I'm required to act for the greatest good for the greatest number.
Ah yes, I see how that works now. You get to call me a troll in super paradise but if I point out in Spirit paradise that I think Doc Cam is a troll, you tell me to stay in my lane. Man it must be nice to be you.
Yes, I agree that you see how it works. When caught red handed selectively and misleadingly quoting Shades you try and change the subject, attack me for something I didn’t do, and try to drag in something someone else did. You absolutely understand how to troll. You’d be much better off explaining why you have the right to degrade the entertainment of many people here.

It is nice to be me. I suspect that’s why I don’t spend hours trolling message boards.
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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