do I understand the definition of a woman?

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Markk
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

Themis wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 2:37 pm
Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 2:31 am
Yes because of medical reasons they can not conceive, and still women. . But at least you know what a biological woman is…why are these women you know biological women? Define them please.
You mean medical reasons like having the Y gene or other genetic and developmental conditions that did not have all the parts necessary to conceive? Why should that disqualify them the term woman or female? The ancients who you have referenced in this discussion never would have. Most of what they looked for in a newborn was if they had a penis or vagina.

The genetic condition has been brought up a lot where someone with the XY may for various reasons not develop male body parts, but female body parts. Now these body parts are just as female as any other female, but they tend to lack all the parts to conceive. If it's parts like a vagina they are almost always classified as female by the ancients and even today. Why should they with female body parts be denied being defined as woman when they grow up and have lived as females their whole life?
In the case of intersex in most cases doctors make or have made the choice with I assume parental input…I did not just makes this up, google it and do some reading I read the same thing form several sites.

In the case of CAIS, or PAIS they are biological male…so the person has to choose what they will identify a as…it is a choice…theirs. But the science is they are biologically male.

Well Themis Ancients did not have the resources we have today, not even close. I just googled this and read a bit on this…even about ancient corrective surgeries . I think you are taking what i wrote a bit out of context, but I get your point and agree, many must have identified as females their whole life, yet in many cases they were biologically male, and in others female. I bet many lived a very hard life because of this.


I read the summary and conclusion, I will read the whole thing when i get time … here is the Conclusion…

Although the ancient medical writers and physicians had varying ways of explaining the human body in terms of its sex, they were still able to conceive the possibility of a dual-sex or a hermaphrodite condition. Although sex differentiation and sex determination was more complicated than it appeared in the works of Aristotle, the Hippocratics and Galen, these medical writers and physicians provided explanations of sex as they understood it using the methods they had available to them during those times. Given the limited number of hermaphrodite individuals that would have existed in antiquity, it is unlikely that any of the physicians discussed here had ever encountered such an individual. Nevertheless, these physicians were aware of the possibility of such a condition and made note of this in their medical treatises. Aristotle’s view of the body was that the female form is merely a deformity of the male form. The Hippocratics viewed the male and female bodies as being completely different from one another. Galen, taking from both Aristotle and the Hippocratic Corpus, considered the male and female genitalia to be inversions of the same parts. Despite these differing views, the condition of hermaphroditism was present in at least one of all their treatises. This evidence provides a basis from which an understanding of the medical condition of hermaphroditism can be perceived from an ancient physician’s perspective.

https://prism.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/han ... sAllowed=y
Markk
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 4:52 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 3:56 am
Man, you don’t really have a grasp on the people who post here, do you? As to your nonsense follow-up questions, QED.

- Doc
Markk just said, "Like the person with CAIS or PAIS, they will have to make a choice as to what sex they will identify as"

The guy obviously doesn't know what to believe.

LOL…so how is what I wrote confusing to you…have you even read about CAIS, PAIS, or intersex?
Markk
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

DT wrote …Imagine

Daughter: Dad, I am going to marry John in the temple.

Father: Please don't sweetheart, you are a biological male with CAIS. You have to go on a two-year mission.

So this is a question and you are not “debating” and not you trying to make a point…LOL
DT wrote…
Or no biological sex?
You asked the question about intersex, I read up on it which you obviously did not, and i stated what the science is about it. It is not like I am making stuff up…if I misread the many article on “intersex” by all means correct me. You even wrote that the science was correct but that I was a Dick for stating it. Would you prefer we just make up lies about these conditions?

DT wrote…. What exactly are we debating? I am simply asking questions, not here for a debate.
LOL…shall I embarrass you and actually cut and paste post that are not questions…like the one above…or the following responses that are not question below.
DT wrote… I said your position is consistent with science. You are defining a biological woman as someone who can reproduce and has "XX"chromosomes, there is nothing in science that disproves your dick view. Your view is just a description Markk. Does that make sense?
So you are not “debating” my view here…LOL, classic.

But anyways my view is what the science reads…you asked me a question, i google the data, i related it to you, you have continued to opine and struggle with the science behind this. You don’t hav e to agree with the science, that is fair and you obviously don’t.

Would you agree in regards to “your questions” that you are taking a very very small sample of people that have medical issues that affect the normative biological make of their bodies? What percentage of people in the world do you believe are affected by what we have discussed? I have no idea, but I would guess a small fraction of less that one percent, but I concede I could be wrong.

DT wrote…” It all depends on the way you define "biological male". What is the scientific consensus on the definition of "biological male"?

"The increasing understanding and acceptance of intersex and gender non-conforming people exemplifies how scientists and society still have a lot to learn about biological sex and the ways sex determination occurs in humans."
https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/sex-determination-humans
You said you know you are a man/male…you stated “of course”…very confidently. So why are you asking me about it? Just state why you know so certainly why you are a biological male and how you define what you stated you are, a biological man.

However you went to “The Embryo Project Encyclopedia,” and did a search of sex determination (or similar). And pasted a part of the article that discusses folks with “intersex” and a “gender-non conforming” persons.
Markk
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

I am at the dentist waiting, and I just read this…I am not making any point here, it is just a interesting “ancient” account

That being said, Diodorus’ account of Heraїs addresses this issue. Heraїs was married to Samiades and lived in Abae in Arabia. While Samiades was absent on a “long journey”, Heraїs fell ill and a “severe tumour appeared at the base of her abdomen”.15 Over the course of the illness, the “tumour” became more swollen and Heraїs suffered from high fevers, which led her physicians to suspect “that an ulceration had taken place at the mouth of the uterus”.16 On the seventh day of the illness, with only her mother and two maidservants as witnesses, “the surface of the tumour burst, and projecting from her groin there appeared a male genital organ with testicles attached”.17 Once she recovered from her illness, she continued to wear “feminine attire” and conduct herself “as one subject to a husband”.18 Heraїs’ hermaphroditism became a problem when her husband returned from his long journey and she continuously refused his sexual advances. Samiades went to court over the issue and as expected, “the court found that it was the wife’s duty to attend upon her husband,” at which point Heraїs “loosed the dress that disguised her, displayed her masculinity to them all, and burst out in bitter protest that anyone should require a man to cohabit with a man”.19 Once Heraїs’ new masculinity became public knowledge, she began to “dress in the clothing of a young man, changed her name to Diophantus, [and] was enrolled in the cavalry”.20 Diodorus provides details of the surgical procedure performed by the physicians on Heraїs, in order to correct the “aperture [that] had formed through which excretions were discharged”.21 The physicians needed to “scarify the perforated area and induce cicatrisation: having thus brought the male organ into decent shape”.22

https://prism.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/han ... sAllowed=y
Father Francis
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Father Francis »

Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:59 pm
I am at the dentist waiting, and I just read this…I am not making any point here, it is just a interesting “ancient” account
No one here ever accused you of making a point. Did you read the rest of the article you cited?
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Jersey Girl
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Father Francis wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:25 pm
Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:59 pm
I am at the dentist waiting, and I just read this…I am not making any point here, it is just a interesting “ancient” account
No one here ever accused you of making a point. Did you read the rest of the article you cited?
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Father Francis
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Father Francis »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:42 pm
Father Francis wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:25 pm
No one here ever accused you of making a point. Did you read the rest of the article you cited?
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From irony or laughter, I hope.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Father Francis wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:54 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:42 pm
dead
From irony or laughter, I hope.
Pretty much, yeah.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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Markk
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

I see you and Jersey Girl came off the porch for a bit…but I assume you are back up on it by now. At some point you might offer something beyond ignorance and any willingness to learn.

O’well
doubtingthomas
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Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by doubtingthomas »

Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:01 pm
So this is a question and you are not “debating” and not you trying to make a point…LOL
No Markk, it is obviously not a question. I am simply making fun of you and your answers.
Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:01 pm
You even wrote that the science was correct but that I was a Dick for stating it.
No idiot, I did not say that. But it's my fault, I should have worded that differently. What I meant is that science cannot disprove your dick definition. There are many ways to define things Markk! For example, you can define a human as a "white Homo sapien with blue eyes" and science won't be able to disprove your racist definition. Does that make sense?
Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:01 pm
a very very small sample of people that have medical issues

How exactly does CAIS affect your health? Does CAIS cause a heart attack or something?
Markk wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:01 pm
I have no idea, but I would guess a small fraction of less that one percent, but I concede I could be wrong.

According to you, they are just a mix bag.

According to science, there are four genders.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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