Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

[Shulem]

At the end of the day, however, the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. It either is or isn’t true. No halfways.

I agree. The Book of Mormon most certainly is another testament of an imaginary person who is called Jesus Christ whom you imagine lives in yonder heaven and is saving you.

Whatever. I can certainly do without the imagination of what's written in the Book of Mormon and the imaginary Jesus.

Ha ha ha!

[Shulem]

Similarly, the likelihood that any events resembling the shipbuilding described in 1 Nephi actually took place is so small that the word 'conjecture' is wholly inappropriate. that's what we have the word 'fantasy' for.

Exactly.

The Book of Mormon is super-fantastical!

[Shulem]

I can’t remember if you’ve said you believe in a creator God or not. One that takes an interest in His creations.

I certainly could never blame God or credit God with ever having anything to do with the Book of Mormon. God is above all that nonsense that Joseph Smith made up. God has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon fantasy. It was the musings of Joseph Smith. It was his little party and he ran with it!

[Father Francis]

'Conjecture'?

Well, would we say it was conjecture whether Hitler really died in his bunker, or instead went to live in a special Fuhrer-module built by German scientist on the other side of the moon? Nope. We'd simply say that the probability that Hitler was up there on the moon was so ridiculously unlikely that it was simply not worth serious consideration.

There's a movie about that. I enjoy bad movies. MST3K!

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I can’t remember if you’ve said you believe in a creator God or not. One that takes an interest in His creations.

I certainly could never blame God or credit God with ever having anything to do with the Book of Mormon. God is above all that nonsense that Joseph Smith made up. God has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon fantasy. It was the musings of Joseph Smith. It was his little party and he ran with it!

And it eventually leads to blockheads posting this:



Literally Indian hill country being passed off as a pOsSiBlE bOuNtIfUL to shore up the Book of Mormon story. They demonstrate they’re only interested in larping and not a fact-based discussion. Worse, they’ve learned that the only necessary thing is to simply posting something and that’s enough. These guys are so invested in their fantasies, no matter how many debunkings, no matter how many factual impossibilities, they just shart out some nonsense and move on to the next assertion. It’s a whack-a-mole game they love playing because they don’t read, crap they don’t even read the sermons they tell us to read, as if we hadn’t read that pablum a thousand times over.

Carnival barkers. Donkeys. Rubes. And straight up deceivers who sell their souls for coin. It’s a clown show where the clowns point back at the audience and claim they’re the ones laughing at us.

- Doc

[Shulem]

One of the more glaring blunders Smith made in his story is that nobody was ever injured when they built the divine projects:

• Nephi's Ship

• Temple of Nephi

There was never a word about the hardship or injury to the human body in attempting to accomplish such colossal tasks with what little they had on hand. Never a word about anyone ever getting hurt. Never anything about delays and problems with the ship and temple. It just happened, rather quickly, and it was done.

The holes in the script are so wide and obvious that those who can't see them are walking by blind faith rather than the sight of reason. Such is the power of suggestion that is the key element keeping religion alive. This is a prime example that shows how faith can poison the very reason within one's own mind.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

One of the more glaring blunders Smith made in his story is that nobody was ever injured when they built the divine projects:

• Nephi's Ship

• Temple of Nephi

There was never a word about the hardship or injury to the human body in attempting to accomplish such colossal tasks with what little they had on hand. Never a word about anyone ever getting hurt. Never anything about delays and problems with the ship and temple. It just happened, rather quickly, and it was done.

The holes in the script are so wide and obvious that those who can't see them are walking by blind faith rather than the sight of reason. Such is the power of suggestion that is the key element keeping religion alive. This is a prime example that shows how faith can poison the very reason within one's own mind.

I’d say his biggest engineering blunder was when he wrote about the Jaredite submarines being tight like unto a dish, and that when they were underwater they’d just unplug the hole on the floor - and if water shot through they’d just plug it back up. He clearly didn’t understand the sheer amount of pressure submarines are under, and if they did in fact unplug or unscrew a stop while being ‘buried’ deep underwater they’d sink because they weren’t going to get that stop back into place. It’s such an absurd tale that for goatknuckles to come here and bare his testimonkey is to really just drive home how fantastically dense you’d have to be to believe the story, the Book of Mormon story, was real. Inspired fiction? Sure, why not. Factual history? C’mon, man.

- Doc

[Shulem]

I’d say his biggest engineering blunder was when he wrote about the Jaredite submarines being tight like unto a dish, and that when they were underwater they’d just unplug the hole on the floor - and if water shot through they’d just plug it back up. He clearly didn’t understand the sheer amount of pressure submarines are under, and if they did in fact unplug or unscrew a stop while being ‘buried’ deep underwater they’d sink because they weren’t going to get that stop back into place. It’s such an absurd tale that for goatknuckles to come here and bare his testimonkey is to really just drive home how fantastically dense you’d have to be to believe the story, the Book of Mormon story, was real. Inspired fiction? Sure, why not. Factual history? C’mon, man.

- Doc

Indeed, the eight Jaredite barges is Smith's greatest whopper. That story really stinks. I never really did accept it even in my most faithful days as a Latter-day Saint. I knew deep inside that something was wrong about that story and that it was simply too fantastic to accept as something that really occurred. I put it on my faith (to dumb to comprehend) shelf. Mormons today who accept that story are only fooling themselves and have checked their brains in to the Church. That is why I told MG to just grow up. It's time to graduate and move on. Time to rise up and expand the mind and dump all that garbage tied to your heart. What a horrible way to live. Get rid of the Church! Get rid of Jesus! Be free and just live.

[Shulem]

And it eventually leads to blockheads posting this:

I'm squinting really hard and I don't see any 50 foot tall trees, not even 20 foot. I don't see any tall pines or oaks or timbers of any sort. I see a lot of bushes and shrubs.

Where are the timbers?

I don't see any.

[huckelberry]

I reviewed the Jaredite barges story and found myself reflecting on a little observation of a kind Shulem might like.

Both Nephi's boat and Jared's barges were made of curious workmanship. I think other things in the Book of Mormon were made curious as well but I am not remembering for sure. The two examples are interesting. I really find it odd to think somebody would describe their own work as curious. The word is clearly indicating something strange and foreign. If I go to the store and see a lawn mower I do not think of it as curious workmanship. There are old artifacts from China which are of curious workmanship.If I make something according to new instructions it may be new to me but it is an odd choice of words to say it is of curious workmanship.

I think the phrase fits a distant storyteller. It is a phrase inviting a sense of wonder and Marvel. The storyteller is inviting the listener or reader to join in the wonder. I find it unlikely Nephi would look at their project and call it curious. Call it perhaps sturdy, something to be proud of , perhaps thankful that they could do it

It is not so clear who is supposed to be calling the barges curious workmanship. Who is narrating this story? Who ever it is they seem to wish to nudge the hearer closer to accepting the land of wonder.

This is an observation that proves absolutely nothing. It contributes to making the story sound like fantasy fiction.