Ok, let's start with the definition of good. The Book of Mormon describes a man as being innately evil who cannot do good even if the thing they do is called good in the same verse:MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:18 amYou lost me right there. That’s a presumptuous statement for a human to make.honorentheos wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:08 pm
Good and evil are value judgements that do not exist objectively outside human experience.
Regards,
MG
Moroni 7:8
8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.
According to this verse, the thing itself can't be objectively good. Giving the gift can't be objectively good. The verse says that the person, being evil, gives the gift grudgingly therefore they may as well have not given the gift in the first place. But the verse doesn't say that a neutral person who gives a gift fails to have done good. The verse says this person is evil. Why? They are counted as evil before God.
So good and evil according to the Book of Mormon are value judgements. That's not in question.
So you then may argue that good and evil may be value judgements, but they are the judgement of God and that makes them good.
But the Book of Mormon tells us that's not true, either. Alma 42 says as that the fall left humankind on the same ground as God when it came to judging good from evil -
Alma 42:3
3 Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit
What was it about this situation that upset God? Why was it a concern to God that Adam might eat the fruit of the tree of life and live forever which, like a mythological story, god had to stop by magic? His concern was that Adam would, "...would have lived forever, according to the word of God, having no space for repentance; yea, and also the word of God would have been void, and the great plan of salvation would have been frustrated."
Read that again. Adam couldn't live forever after having disobeyed god because that would have negated god's word. And....so? So what? Why did that matter? The chapter never says besides god had said it would mean they can't come to visit anymore. It just assumes the reader catches the winks and nods that this a "BAD" thing and so no questions asked. Then it uses this set up to explain why god then had a plan to make is so people who did things he said they shouldn't do could still come to visit and not void his word. Clever, that. God is a DM I see.
That chapter tells us that Adam and Eve were subject to their own will which was bad. Bad according to whom? God. But why? Because they were cut off from him. So? Well, uh.
Alma 42 is a mess. It says things are the way they are because God said so and that's how things should be. If they didn't go that way? That's bad for god. And you know what that means? Good and evil are constructs, even in Mormon theology.
Saying something is "good" is making a value judgement. That's just a fact. And that requires someone to assign value and make a judgement based on the relational qualities of the thing.