Secure the Schools

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honorentheos
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by honorentheos »

bill4long wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:01 am
honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:58 am

I insist that responsibility be part of any discussion about firearms, yes. One should ask why you disagree?
For one thing, criminals don't care about "responsible gun ownership." Black markets don't care about "responsible gun ownership." At any rate, you seem insistent on avoiding the topic which is securing schools regardless of how many guns are out there, attempts at gun control or not. If you want a thread about gun control, start another thread, but please don't highjack this one.
This isn't a highjack. You want to discuss adding more guns into schools. I'm demanding you include how that will encourage responsible ownership or you are just making an arguing for further proliferation.

Responsibility has to be part of any conversation about firearms. How would you include it in the discussion you think needs to take place?

I mean, the two biggest mass shootings this month would have been prevented by requiring a person be 21 to purchase a firearm. Hunter's safety? A cool off period and background checks? The killer in Texas wouldn't have been able to kill 19 ten year old kids, no extra guns in schools required.

So, how do you see your ideas encouraging responsible firearm ownership?
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canpakes
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by canpakes »

Bill, you asked a question about how to protect a target against being attacked by people with firearms, but you don't want to consider the possibility of eliminating the use of those firearms. Interesting.

Just as a thought … consider that when the US military plans on how to neutralize a threat to a target, they don’t solely consider piling on lots of armor. They also offensively attempt to disable or eliminate the number and type of weapons that could be deployed against the target.

If you don’t want to discuss firearms when asking how to secure a school against attack by firearms, then you’re not so much wanting to discuss ‘securing the school’ as you are more so wanting to discuss ‘minimizing the death toll due to bullets being fired at students’.
honorentheos
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by honorentheos »

I'm pretty sure he didn't want to talk about firearms ownership as a responsibility at any rate. And anyone who wants to push for proliferation but not demand responsibility be part of the discussion is a liability to society.
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MeDotOrg
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by MeDotOrg »

"Secure the Schools".

When I was growing up, schools had 'drop and cover' drills. When the teacher yelled "DROP!", we dropped under our desks, the better to survive a hydrogen bomb. Evidently it worked, because I was never killed by a hydrogen bomb.

If schools and federal buildings were EXACTLY the same, they would need the same type of protection. So do we need to defend each school from a potential January 6th Uprising?

It's curious how you want us to stay on topic, but the only federal office holders you discuss are Democrats. So would you stipulate that federal buildings protect Republicans as well as Democrats, and that 'federal protection' is not the exclusive property of Democrats or Republicans?

What's the difference between a Federal Building and a local school? I guarantee you, no one was talking about local schools needing Federal Protection in the 1950's. What has changed so drastically in this country that would make you consider the GARGANTUAN COSTS in providing the same level of protection at local schools?

So WHY do we need to do this and HOW MUCH would it cost?
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Gunnar
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by Gunnar »

bill4long wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:21 am
Who here is for securing the schools as federal buildings are secured, and as Biden, Pelosi and Shumer are secured, regardless of how many guns exist out there?

[ ] Yes, secure the schools regardless of how many guns are out there
[ ] No, don't secure the schools regardless of how many guns are out there

This thread is not about gun control or gun rights or any sidebar subject. This thread is about a very specific question. Please don't attempt to highjack the thread. If you want to discuss gun rights or gun control, create a new thread.
Regardless of how many guns are out there, there are laws prohibiting anyone other than school employees and students access to their facilities without first going through their main administrative office to identify themselves and state their business or reason for being there. Anyone who fails to do so can be prosecuted for unlawful trespass. All schools I know about provide at least this level of security (as they should). In a sane society it shouldn't be necessary to also require armed guards to be stationed at every single school during school hours, if that is what you are getting at.
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canpakes
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by canpakes »

As well as schools, it appears - based on recent shootings - that we’ll also need to secure gas stations, shopping malls, nightclubs, restaurants, government properties, highways, military sites, home improvement stores, outdoor concerts, hotels, homes, places of worship, healthcare settings, and all open spaces.
Vēritās
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by Vēritās »

Colombine High Killings - 15 killed
Red Lake High Shootings - 10 killed
Sandy Hook Elementary - 27 killed
Marysville Pilchuck High - 5 killed
Parkland Florida - 17 killed
Santa Fe High School - 10 killed
Uvalde Texas - 22 killed


What do all of these school shootings have in common?

The shooters were under the age of 21. Democrats tried to pass a law requiring gun owners to be at least 21, but republicans poo pooed on that because ... muh freeduhm

Securing the schools is as simple as getting guns out of the hands of children.
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Gunnar
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by Gunnar »

Vēritās wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:51 pm
What do all of these school shootings have in common?

The shooters were under the age of 21. Democrats tried to pass a law requiring gun owners to be at least 21, but republicans poo pooed on that because ... muh freeduhm

Securing the schools is as simple as getting guns out of the hands of children.
That's a start, but I think we also ought to seriously again consider banning the sale of military style semi-automatic assault rifles and high capacity magazines to the general public. During the 10 years the ban was in effect, there was a significant drop in shooting deaths, followed by a sharp rise right after the ban was lifted. Did the assault weapons ban of 1994 bring down mass shootings? Here's what the data tells us.

During the 1994-2004 ban:

In the years after the assault weapons ban went into effect, the number of deaths from mass shootings fell, and the increase in the annual number of incidents slowed down. Even including 1999’s Columbine High School massacre – the deadliest mass shooting during the period of the ban – the 1994 to 2004 period saw lower average annual rates of both mass shootings and deaths resulting from such incidents than before the ban’s inception.

From 2004 onward:

The data shows an almost immediate – and steep – rise in mass shooting deaths in the years after the assault weapons ban expired in 2004.
Given that data, it would be irresponsible and foolish to not reinstate that ban, The NRA and the gun manufacturers who obstinately appose that can just go to hell, as far as I'm concerned!
Last edited by Gunnar on Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by Some Schmo »

The OP essentially boils down to "how can gun owners eat their cake and have it too?"
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The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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Moksha
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Re: Secure the Schools

Post by Moksha »

bill4long wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:35 am
No, it's about what I said it's about: securing schools regardless of how many guns are out there.
Steel reinforced concrete bunkers with a single point of entrance and egress in a narrow corridor with retinal scanners and DNA analysis! This might alarm the Fire Marshalls but could take the heat off the gun manufacturers.
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