Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

[doubtingthomas]

Was what I experienced the Holy Spirit? I have guessed it was

So you are still not entirely convinced?

I kept that promise, and so far He hasn't corrected my assumption that that sensation was His answer.

How do you know God answers prayers? Perhaps God is like a wildlife cameraman who observes but never intervenes.

[drumdude]

Feelings are a great way to find a romantic partner. Or a good restaurant. They might even be a good way to find a religion.

But once you’ve found them, you should not continue on feelings alone. If your partner gets arrested for check fraud, your feelings need to give way to facts. If your restaurant fails a health inspection, your feelings should give way to facts. And if your religion acts the way Mormonism has, your feelings need to give way to facts.

[malkie]

Was what I experienced the Holy Spirit? I have guessed it was

So you are still not entirely convinced?

I kept that promise, and so far He hasn't corrected my assumption that that sensation was His answer.

How do you know God answers prayers? Perhaps God is like a wildlife cameraman who observes but never intervenes.

DT, KevinSim may actually have received, from God, a correction to his assumption. Unfortunately the correction was in a form that KevinSim did not recognise as such, and so not only did he not even consider the possibility that he had received a correction - it went completely over his head as if it had not been a message of any sort.

[doubtingthomas]

DT, KevinSim may actually have received, from God, a correction to his assumption. Unfortunately the correction was in a form that KevinSim did not recognise as such, and so not only did he not even consider the possibility that he had received a correction - it went completely over his head as if it had not been a message of any sort.

He's obviously not paying attention to the still small voice. KevinSim needs to pray with a sincere heart, doubting nothing, so he can recognize the correction.

[drumdude]

After seeing the famous photo of all the prophets examining the Hoffman forgery, I feel better about not ever having had a spiritual witness. If God didn't witness to them that Hoffman was a fraud and about to murder someone, he likely doesn't appear in more mundane situations either.

[IHAQ]

I’m pretty sure there are plenty of optimistic atheists.

I'm not sure there are any conscientious ones who have thoroughly thought things through.

Your insecurity is showing through with such a glib and arrogant response.

[Fence Sitter]

Maybe "being in control" would be a better phrase. I'd say "making sure some good things are being preserved forever," but last time I said something like that long time posters brought up unpleasant comments about things I've posted in the distant past!

I like "making sure some good things are preserved forever." That's a lovely sentiment and a worthwhile aim.

Unfortunately, its aim is to support an organization which defrauds its members of their money, lies to them about how the organization came to be and is run, and spiritually abuses minorities within its membership. Other than that, it's a feel-good meaningless catchphrase that Kevin cannot adequately explain. Everyone would agree "Make America Great Again" is a worthwhile goal, but the phrase is being used to destroy America, not make it great.

[Meadowchik]

Seems fake to me.

I think so to. The Mormon bubble can't be that impenetrable can it?

It could be real. The difference is where the will is.

My experience leaving corroborates that. I had the vast majority of information I needed. Basically I lacked one small puzzle piece: which was understanding how one man doing bad things can fool lots of good people. I had relied on the notion that *that many* good people can't be fooled by Joseph Smith if he was doing such wrong.

The "will" element, combined with the information is what turned the key. I was willing to leave it behind, something I'd never been before.

[Dr Exiled]

I think so to. The Mormon bubble can't be that impenetrable can it?

It could be real. The difference is where the will is.

My experience leaving corroborates that. I had the vast majority of information I needed. Basically I lacked one small puzzle piece: which was understanding how one man doing bad things can fool lots of good people. I had relied on the notion that *that many* good people can't be fooled by Joseph Smith if he was doing such wrong.

The "will" element, combined with the information is what turned the key. I was willing to leave it behind, something I'd never been before.

Had you been considering the information for a while prior to having the "will" element? I think a lot of people weigh the group vs. out group decision for a time prior to making the leap, and when they do, it seems like it was all of a sudden. Was that your experience?

[Meadowchik]

Had you been considering the information for a while prior to having the "will" element? I think a lot of people weigh the group vs. out group decision for a time prior to making the leap, and when they do, it seems like it was all of a sudden. Was that your experience?

Looking back, I can see a build up to the emotional transition, but when it happened, it did feel sudden. It was a situation of abusive church leaders, with some trauma (violent church member) and emotionally it was like being kicked in the face by the church, but in slow motion, until getting to a critical point when I had to detach myself. That's when, intellectually, the picture was complete with all the pieces and very clear.

It's a demonstration of the saying that those who are converted emotionally (and intellectually, in my case) will not be deconverted on a rational basis alone. There must be an emotional transition, a transformation of the will also.