No, its meaning is not self-evident at all, and we have been down this rabbit hole before. It's a catch phrase intended to make people feel good about something without really knowing what it means or how it is done. Like Chap points out, you think you are saying something wise but really have you no idea what it is you are saying. Oh, I know you think it means something to you, you might even believe it means something to everyone else, but you are unable to give it clarity when you try and explain it to someone else. You make too many assumptions about what others must believe regarding things like God, what is good, how it is preserved and even what forever entails. When challenged on your explanations you resort to asking why you should believe that way instead of responding to the question. It's a frequent tactic of yours, responding with a question as if that is some sort of rebuttal.KevinSim wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:39 amFence Sitter, I said "making sure some good things are preserved forever." Why do I need to explain it? Isn't its meaning self-evident?Fence Sitter wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:50 pmOther than that, it's a feel-good meaningless catchphrase that Kevin cannot adequately explain.
Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
The question I asked God in 1976 was is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints true, but I have no idea anymore what that Church being true even means. I care much more over whether God wants me in that Church. As far as the how goes, the only way I can think of knowing is asking God if S/He does want me there and counting on God giving me an answer I can understand. What would I do? I would do whatever God wants me to do.
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Drumdude, I don't care whether or not there is something better than Mormonism on the other side. All I care about is where God wants me to be. Or by better do you mean more endorsed by God?
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Ah, now I see what you mean. So you think it's impossible to talk logically with someone who starts out with faith in God? You don't think it could be productive to find out why I have that faith in God?
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Marcus, how do you know it's insupportable?
Thank you. The simple fact is that humanity needs God. If, as atheists assert, there is no deity in control of this universe, then it becomes those atheists' conscientious obligation to produce one. If atheists have thought things through and are yet not pessimists, then that means they must have found a way to produce such a deity, which would surprise me very much. So if you can explain to me how they have discovered how to produce God, I will admit that I am wrong and that my statement is insupportable.Marcus wrote:You are welcome to explain why you engaged in such stereotyping in response to IHAQ's comment:
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Kevin,
I appreciate that you have had a personal witness of something you label God. But that only goes as far as your own self. If you aren’t solipsistic (where you think you are the only mind that exists in the universe) then you have to grant that other minds exist. And I’m telling you, as another mind, that I haven’t had the same experience as you.
What you label God, is welcome to come give me the experience you have had anytime it wants to. I’m here waiting.
And if you tell me that I missed the experience, I can easily retort that you missed the experience of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. His noodly arms reached out to you but you didn’t accept him because of the hardness of your heart. And if you disagree that he exists, I will say that the burden is on you to create a Flying Spaghetti Monster to satisfy some cosmic need that I have just created out of thin air with zero justification, as you have with your God.
I appreciate that you have had a personal witness of something you label God. But that only goes as far as your own self. If you aren’t solipsistic (where you think you are the only mind that exists in the universe) then you have to grant that other minds exist. And I’m telling you, as another mind, that I haven’t had the same experience as you.
What you label God, is welcome to come give me the experience you have had anytime it wants to. I’m here waiting.
And if you tell me that I missed the experience, I can easily retort that you missed the experience of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. His noodly arms reached out to you but you didn’t accept him because of the hardness of your heart. And if you disagree that he exists, I will say that the burden is on you to create a Flying Spaghetti Monster to satisfy some cosmic need that I have just created out of thin air with zero justification, as you have with your God.
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
no, not a fact.
Seriously?If, as atheists assert, there is no deity in control of this universe, then it becomes those atheists' conscientious obligation to produce one.
Even funnier.So if you can explain to me how they have discovered how to produce God, I will admit that I am wrong and that my statement is insupportable.
i think we're being spoofed, guys.
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
I think so too. He pushed a little beyond the pale with that one.Marcus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:35 amno, not a fact.Seriously?If, as atheists assert, there is no deity in control of this universe, then it becomes those atheists' conscientious obligation to produce one.
Even funnier.So if you can explain to me how they have discovered how to produce God, I will admit that I am wrong and that my statement is insupportable.
i think we're being spoofed, guys.
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Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
It seems like you are using "God" to denote idealism. It's a very Machiavellian notion that you present.KevinSim wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:01 amThe simple fact is that humanity needs God. If, as atheists assert, there is no deity in control of this universe, then it becomes those atheists' conscientious obligation to produce one. If atheists have thought things through and are yet not pessimists, then that means they must have found a way to produce such a deity, which would surprise me very much. So if you can explain to me how they have discovered how to produce God, I will admit that I am wrong and that my statement is insupportable.
Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Just for the benefit of people from outside Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the three letters "God" in KS's post refer to the deity imagined by those three religions - the so-called 'Abrahamic' religions, which in their current forms all agree on a single all-powerful all-knowing deity who created and sustains the universe and is the ground of the moral order.
But here is a newsflash: for most of human existence, people had no idea at all of such a strange kind of solitary metaphysical superpower watching us all the time, and ready to intervene capriciously to destroy or to save some group that he hated or valued. And we really did not manage too badly. Today, particularly in Asia, there are millions of decent, honest, hard-working family-loving human beings (of whom I know quite a few) to whom this fantasy is completely alien.
In what sense do those people "need" your deity? What need of theirs would he/she/it/they satisfy?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.